Thanks, I genuinely appreciate the perspective. Do you find that perspective is primarily gotten from real life conversations, or from discourse online/social media/political commentators?
I often fantasize about being able to just converse openly and be able to mutually share experiences. I was raised very conservative and speak the language and know the values. I don't hold those beliefs anymore because of experiences I've had that made them contradictory to hold. But I still appreciate why someone who hasn't had my experiences might hold them.
For my "side", among all the people that I talk to who, who would be considered pretty far to one side, everyone wants primarily to be left alone, not harassed, and wants to coexist, and be respected. Is it the same from yours?
> Do you find that perspective is primarily gotten from real life conversations, or from discourse online/social media/political commentators?
Both. I worked at a company that leaned right, and there was a guy I worked with that took every opportunity to interject with his left/liberal opinion. I think people found it annoying sometimes, but we had some good discussions every once in a while. His career didn't suffer and we still keep in touch. Other companies have either been apolitical or left-leaning, and I've never observed the opposite. Personally, I keep my mouth shut because providing for my family is more important than (best case scenario) changing someone's mind, and I'm guessing that's everyone else's strategy as well.
> everyone wants primarily to be left alone, not harassed, and wants to coexist, and be respected. Is it the same from yours?
Nominally, yes. But even with that I think that's where there's a lot of disagreement. What does coexistence mean exactly? Does it mean forcing people to accept others into their spaces? What if a company wants to exclusively hire men? What if they want to exclusively hire Christians? To me, infringing on the right of free association is at odds with being left alone. Am I being left alone if a significant amount of my income is being confiscated against my will and spent in a way that I disagree with? What does being respected mean? Is it forcing people to use certain pronouns, even if you don't think it aligns with their biological sex, and it feels like lying?
I get this is a rhetorical question, but I'm still unsure where your hangups are coming from.
Most of my friends are some flavor of Christian. They use my pronouns around me. I don't take their Lords name in vain around them. Sometimes, coexistance and respect are really as simple as that.
> What if a company wants to exclusively hire men? What if they want to exclusively hire Christians?
Unfortunately, history has shown that allowing that kind of selectivity ends up with extremely unfair job prospects for people from different ethnic backgrounds. You might be fine if you're a Christian man, but there's a lot of other people in the world so you should learn to get along with them (not intending to imply that you personally have an issue).
> Is it forcing people to use certain pronouns, even if you don't think it aligns with their biological sex, and it feels like lying?
It's not so much forcing as just being polite. If you meet someone and call them "David" and they reply "oh, I prefer Dave", then it'd be kind of odd for you to insist on using "David" because that's the name that was written on their birth certificate. It's about consideration for other people's self image etc.
> Unfortunately, history has shown that allowing that kind of selectivity ends up with extremely unfair job prospects for people from different ethnic backgrounds.
This admin is solving that dilemma by attempting to deport them all..
how can you say you only want cooperation when the viewpoints you and your brethren share are dehumanising, against a peaceful world, against caring for the environment, against minorities, against queer folk, and against international cooperation?
we arent talking about “how many immigrants should we allow”, we’re talking about “trans people shouldnt exist”, “christianity is the true religion”, “deport all legal immigrants”, “gay people shouldnt have human rights”
The person you’re responding to may not believe those things, and may not want those things or think it’s possible or reasonable. Let them speak about it at least before assuming that group affiliation means those things.
FWIW I believe dehumanization is a horrendous thing, especially when aimed at relatively powerless minorities.
The people currently in power do believe and act on those things. Claiming they aren't the bad guys (and especially voting for them) demonstrates tacit acceptance of those beliefs and policies whether you like it or not. You don't get to support people who do bad things and claim you don't agree with the bad things.
What /would/ someone have to offer you, your family or your community? What do you value? What does your community value? How do you know folks have nothing to offer?
> we get downvoted/banned/doxxed (on most platforms) when we do say what we think.
Gee I wonder why! Maybe because you guys say the most vile and hateful shit out loud, are intolerant of people existing and constantly try to impose your way of living to others instead of letting people live as they like/want/can.
> The general consensus in my circles is that for the past decade "our side" have been advocating cooperation, while the other side repeatedly defects.
If this is really truly the case, explain the J6 insurrection. Trump lied for 2 months about the election results. Summoned his supporters, who literally show up with weapons flying Trump / Confederate / Nazi flags side by side, sacked the capitol, attempted to murder the Vice President and Speaker of the House. They engaged in what was described as "medieval combat" for hours. People died, cops and injured for life.
To this day, the people in power who you say are not the bad guys refuse to admit responsibility for what happened and pardoned all the people who committed those crimes on his behalf.
How do you square what happened then with your assertion that "the past decade "our side" have been advocating cooperation"?
