Navalty had some pretty scary things to say about Ukraine as well. To summarize: He thought there are no differences between Ukranian people and Russian people, he thinks that Crimea is rightfully Russia's (finder's keepers!), and he thinks it would be nice for Belarus and Ukraine to just be absorbed by Russia and become part of Russia again.
He was only against the war in Ukraine when it became obvious it was not going to be a three day one and done operation.
Navalny has always been a supporter of a concept referred to as "Russkiy Mir"[1] and has spoke at length about it. It is a weird ethno religious philosophy which shows the bounds of the russian country extend far past the borders of teh russian federation. The closest I can easily describe it is as a weird western version of jihad where they want to assume all other cultures and erase them in favor of expansion of their own via multiple methods.
In 2007, in a Russian "Gun Rights" video, Navalny compared the Chechen muslims to "cockroaches and flies" and said he wanted to exterminate them. A picture of a Chechen muslim appears on the screen and he shoots it with a pistol. In another [2] video it featured Navalny dressed as a dentist, presenting a slightly confusing parable that likened interethnic conflict in Russia to cavities and argued that fascism can be prevented only by deporting migrants from Russia. Navalny closed his monologue with “We have a right to be [ethnic] Russians in Russia. And we will defend this right.” This is an allegory to killing all non-ethnic Russians.
In 2008 when Russia invaded the country of Georgia. He said[3]:
Of course, there is a big desire to fire a cruise missile at the General Staff of the [derogative name for Georgians], but they are just waiting for this.
Years later, he apologized for the ethnic slur denoting Georgian people, but never for his support of the Russian war on Georgia.
In an interview with Echo of Moscow radio station in October 2014, Navalny admitted that the peninsula had been seized through “outrageous violations of all international norms”, and yet asserted that it would “remain part of Russia” and would “never become part of Ukraine in the foreseeable future”.
His statement was not simply an assessment of the developments around Crimea. When pressed on whether he would return Crimea to Ukraine were he to become Russia’s president, Navalny wrapped his “No” in an odd question: “What? Is Crimea a sandwich or something that you can take and give back?” His position on Crimea was basically, "finders keepers."
Also in 2014, here[4] he is using one of the worst ethnic slurs for Ukrainians making fun of them.
In 2016, Navalny said that he intended to hold a "normal" referendum in Russian-occupied Crimea if he won the Russian presidential election. Note that Russia has forcibly killed or deported many/most ethnic Tatar peoples and native Ukrainians from Crimea. They've allowed Russian people to come occupy it and settle the lands, so by definition, any referendum would be with invaders on invaded territory. It would be a sham.
In 2023, he offered a 15 point "manifesto"[5] where he changed tac quite a bit, but this was after some prominent navalnyists were pissing off western journalists with their staunch anti-ukraine message, all in line with Russkiy Mir.
I can go on and on and on, but his support of violence and cleansing the world of non-russians goes back a long time. I just spent a few minutes to find these but if you dig in you can find the same and more.
Note that Russia has forcibly killed or deported many/most ethnic Tatar peoples and native Ukrainians from Crimea.
— where is the reference for that please? I am from Crimea and have both Russian and Ukrainian friends there, I have never heard of anything like that happening.
Agreed with most of your points on Navalny though.
Wrong - I am actually Tatar with Ukrainian passport, but it’s a long story…
Just read the article you quoted. Are you referring to 1944? We can go all the way down to Crimean war if you want. Your original statement made an impression that you were referring to recent events?
Thanks for those links. Let me address them. As a side note, it is interesting to see how you were not satisfied with the official western media coverage of Navalny but suddenly referring to them - Spectator, Times - when it comes to Crimean Tatars.. Putting this aside
The article refers to human rights violations documented by Crimean Tatar Resource Centre. I had a quick look at this organisation and here is the list of its “partners” - all openly stated:
https://ctrcenter.org/en/o-nas/nashi-partnery - NATO Information and Documentation Centre, USAIDS, PACT Ukraine, etc. - all huge friends of Russia, obviously seeking unbiased views on the situation. Can you trust that source? Maybe. I remember those “human rights organisations” from my teenage years when they suddenly started to pop up all over the peninsular after the USSR collapse, telling me about my rights that were apparently violated. I had not invited any of them and never appreciated any of their business, all targeted to destroy the state rather than protect human rights. Personal opinion of course.
As for those cases mentioned in the article
1. Roman Osmanov is currently facing an administrative charge of online petty hooliganism. Sorry, this is neither killing nor deportation. Not even a criminal offence.
2. Leniye Umerova – from what I understand from the article, she didn’t accept the choice of the majority of Crimean people on the referendum and fled to Kyiv in 2015. Her parents are still in Crimea. Again, nobody deported or killed. In the same article the author says that she freely crossed the border to visit her parent in Evpatoria (eastern Crimea) and had been doing so since 2015 until she was eventually detained in December 2022. So she crossed the border freely every year until that detention when FSB accused her of having sensitive information about Russian forces locations in Kyiv region on her phone. True? False? Who knows.. It’s a wartime and so entirely possible. No killing or deporting still.
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/5/7400834/https://www.interfax.ru/russia/901646
3. Appaz Kurtamet - According to the investigation, he transferred 500 hryvnias (US$13.67) to a member of the Krym Battalion. Krym Battalion is an interesting one, it was created by Ukraine to perform terrorist attacks in Crimea and is declared a terrorist organisation in Russia. Did the Russians have rights to arrest him? Sounds like it. Was it too much for a young boy? Probably. No killing or deporting.
To your second article
2. https://spectator.org/the-unseeing-years-russias-ethnic-clea...
Ervin Ibragimov was probably exactly what it says in the article. What can I say? Appalling and disgraceful behaviour of Russian DPS. Bless this guy. Situation in Crimea in 2014 was very very dangerous. It was a miracle that the war didn’t break back then. It does appear that this was a violation.
3. times.co.uk - apologies the page won’t open without registration, and I am not prepared to subscribe to Tories’ propaganda.
Crimea is a complicated case. Ukraine has always tried to play on the tension between us and the Russians. Especially so after 1992 when Crimea declared independence and tried to adopt its own constitution. Among other things Ukraine allowed organisations like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizb_ut-Tahrir (recently declared a terrorist organisation by UK btw) to operate on the peninsula.
Since 2014 Crimea has three official languages - Tatar, Ukrainian and Russian. Before that it only had one – Ukrainian. We were granted amnesty for “unlawfully seized” lands and were allowed to privatise those territories. I am not trying to say it’s black or white, but I do believe those Tatars who chose to remain on the peninsula are a lot better off now compared to pre-referendum time.
What about this summary of the current human rights situation in the Republic of Crimea, from Wikipedia:
United Nations monitors (who had been in Crimea from 2 April to 6 May 2014) said they were concerned about treatment of journalists, sexual, religious and ethnic minorities and AIDS patients.[115] The monitors had found that journalists and activists who had opposed the 2014 Crimean referendum had been harassed and abducted.[116] They also reported that Crimeans who had not applied for Russian citizenship faced harassment and intimidation.[115]
According to Human Rights Watch "Russia has violated multiple obligations it has as an occupying power under international humanitarian law – in particular in relation to the protection of civilians' rights."[117][55]
In its November 2014 report on Crimea, Human Rights Watch stated that "The de facto authorities in Crimea have limited free expression, restricted peaceful assembly, and intimidated and harassed those who have opposed Russia's actions in Crimea".[118] According to the report, 15 persons went missing since March 2014; according to Ukrainian authorities 21 people disappeared.[67]
He did all of that, true, but all of that no longer matters. Nobody cares about Che Guevara personality or political views, when they wear a t-shirt with his portrait. He became a symbol of resistance and Alexey will become another one, an iconic figure who was poisoned, but returned home to continue his fight.
I concur. What he stood for was a more free, open, and democratic Russia. In reality, if Russia was more friendly with the west, it would be 100x more prosperous. It is really a shame the old Chekists are still in charge. As large as the Russian Federation is in people and land mass, their economy would be an order of magnitude larger if it was ran better. Such a shame.
Most Russians would disagree with you. The worst time (economically) for the vast majority of people was peak friendliness with the West under Yeltsin. Economically Russia was actually doing very well just before 2022.
My point was that Russia is a large extremely natural resource rich country. It has a lot of culture and a lot of people. It would be much better off exporting goods to the west instead of continuing the Cold War.
It should in theory be able to export much more than just energy products to the west. America has a virtually infinite appetite for consumption and labor costs in Russia are quite low due to different standards of living.
The problem of course is infrastructure rot and corruption have gutted much of the non Muskovy areas of the Russian federation. It’s a pipe dream that will never happen, but it would be a wonderful world where Russia is actually friendly with the west and loses their imperial ambitions.
>The problem of course is infrastructure rot and corruption have gutted much of the non Muskovy areas of the Russian federation.
Export infrastructure is in a very good shape (e.g. railroads, which are used for export of coal, grain etc, pipelines and container terminals) and there’s plenty of new manufacturing capacity there across the country. Russia does have industrial policy for import substitution since 2000s and managed to localize some production, so this is not really a problem.
The real problem is the shortage of labor, the unemployment is already very low there. Just like in USA and Europe it is partially solved by the immigration from Global South, in this case from Central Asia. But this also means that skilled labor is not super-cheap. Russia can be a strong partner on some markets (energy, aerospace, IT) and can bring a lot of value in entrepreneurial culture and customer service (unknown to the West, but superior to anywhere else in Europe).
Economically significant part of Russian population is doing quite well right now, thanks to generous military spending. Inequality dropped, working class is earning the money they have never seen before. Nevertheless I do not think this would in any way imply that they want to be in a state of war forever.
Sure but that was right after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Takes some time and Putin himself was outwardly more cooperative with the West back in the day.
Also in the USA congress makes the budget but the president always gets blame or credit for the economy(it's more complicated sure, but it all falls on the POTUS).
Yeah I wouldn't say it would be 100x more prosperous. Look at the 90s under US puppet Yeltsin. That was the time to show how good cooperation with the west will be but didn't happen. Russia was treated as any South American or African country was treated. I'm not from Russia but heaps of westerners (not only US) came to buy up businesses and spread Christianity. They literally did nothing in terms of investments and creating institutions except for capturing mining rights.
Although I would add that I personally think Russia has not really developed much in the last 10 years under him. He really needs to invest into changes.
This is a very inaccurate picture of that period. Yeltsin wasn’t anyone’s puppet for sure and Russia was not treated as a colony. All economic struggles of that period happened for several purely internal reasons: transition from planning to market economy cannot happen instantly - a lot of processes had to adapt and recalibrate; rule of law was not established, because the legal system and law enforcement had to be reformed and a lot of new laws had to be written (e.g. modern law on bankruptcy was enacted only in 2000s IIRC); dissolution of USSR broke a lot of economic ties. The West actually helped a lot in that period of time, offering credits, even sending humanitarian aid. Western investment from major consumer brands like Unilever, Coca-Cola or P&G brought management skills and standards of work, entrepreneurial culture was heavily influenced by America etc.
"He did all of that, true, but all of that no longer matters."
Because he is dead.
"Nobody cares about Che Guevara personality or political views, when they wear a t-shirt with his portrait."
But I have never seen anyone wearing it, without them thinking it is somehow connected to good socialism and revolution. Mostly in ignorance of the actual person and events, sure, but not ignoring the political views.
I don't see how Russia is culturally part of "the West" in any meaningful way.
We can debate whether, say, Poland or Hungary is, but Russia is, to me, surely not part of any meaningful definition of the West (in a cultural sense)
"but Russia is, to me, surely not part of any meaningful definition of the West (in a cultural sense)"
Why not? The roots are probably in norse/viking people mixing with the locals and it later became a christian country by force, like the rest of europe, though orthodox (like greece is for example). It always was more off, sure, but for example Alexander II greatly invested in connections into the rest of europe. Russian thinkers and writers were greatly influential in europe, like Tolstoi and Dostojewski, or more to my liking: Bakunin and Kropotkin.
The whole east and sibiria always was and is different, but west of Ural traditionally had strong connections with the rest of europe.
Yes, actual Russians (русичи) are from Russia tower, now Old Russa tower (Старая Русса), which was on Russia river, now Porussia river, but Russians renamed their country to Ukraine, to avoid confusion with Russian (Moscow) Empire.
Russian (Rossian) Federation doesn't contain a region named "Russia". Russians (Russish, русские) are believers of Russian Orthodox church and not a nation at all, like Catholics are not a nation. Rossians (россияне) is.
Many nations, such as Tatars, Mordva, etc., were turned into Russians (Russish) by a process called "Russification", when stolen Russians Orthodox Church was used as tool to enslave peoples and erase their identity by giving them Russian names and forbidding to use their native language in favor of Russian Church Slavonic language. Scratch a Russian and you find a Tatar[1].
This all may be true, but he still has a track record as an expansionist, as nationalist, as islamophobic, and as ethno-nationalist. He may not have presented much of a change in Russia's behavior the way the western press has implied he might have.
I remember watching a documentary about his life, and in his early years he has expressed some "extreme-right"/nationalist views. I assume that he was click-baiting anyone who would hear him, gathering fame and fortune. Eventually he was recognised as a 'potentially worthy' opponent of Putin and was given the support and guidance to become what he became.
(Majority of) Russians are 'different'. They don't care to change. They don't understand the "modern" way of life. They don't understand the new/modern approaches of 'diversity'. (Understand = it conflicts with their ideology, traditions, mindset - of course they understand and simply disagree).
In Russia, historically, the easiest way to solve a problem is to eliminate the person behind the problem, and the problem will solve itself. I has been done like that for centuries, and I don't feel that this will change anytime soon.
> I'm not sure that's an accurate reflection of the man's views. Your sequencing is not construable to a new fact.
> He did recant any notion of Ukrainians being Russian. He also asserted ukrainians Right to independent self-governing.
I never followed Navalny very closely, but my understanding was he opposed Putin but he was also a Russian nationalist, so (at least pre-2022) there wasn't tons of distance between them on the topic of Ukraine.
Since Trump and especially since the more recent invasion of Ukraine, I think there's been a tendency for Western liberals to concentrate on Putin, oppose him, and therefore idealize his opponents as being and thinking just like themselves. So the liberals would tend to avoid thinking about certain uncomfortable facts, and Navalny may have been incentivized to conform to their views (given he was in prison and his main protection was the attention and sympathy of foreign liberals)
It was always pretty clear that he wasn't a saint. At some point Amnesty International felt compelled to clarify that their sympathy for Navalny began and ended with him being poisoned and imprisoned.
Has happened over and over again that the Western political class prioritizes alignment with some entity on some short term goal over checking that the entity shares any other sentiments. And then being all surprised-pikachu when they dont.
US funding mujahideen against the Soviets.
Israel funding Hamas to keep the PA weak.
Europe lauding Aung Sang Suu Kyi in Myanmar
etc.
Any time you see a puff piece in mainstream Western media about some leader abroad that "we find we can work with" or has similar cheese, beware.
> there's been a tendency for Western liberals to concentrate on Putin, oppose him, and therefore idealize his opponents
Seems to depend on whether someone believes Russia's security interests have some level of legitimacy. If the war is unfounded then it is an act of madness and the motivation is probably attributable to a single charismatic individual (and Putin must be that person). The view is part of the "Russia's unprovoked attack on Ukraine!" narrative.
If Russian has legitimate security interests in the region then it doesn't matter so much who the president is and Putin's role in events is important but it is likely others would have made the same choice.
Some people in the West really tried to make him the face of opposition in Russia, but he was unpalatable to Eastern Europe, which no longer is a part of the world that doesn't count. The West, Western Europe in particular has to realign its diplomatic strategy and stop ignoring countries located between Moscow and Berlin.
To him this is likely "a mild disagreement" as ukrainian civilians are being actively targeted by Russian missiles. Quite a tone deaf and horrible point of view.
That too but I was referring to language differences.
Untrained/unexposed russian won't understand UA language. They wouldn't even be able to pronounce it correctly if their life depended on it.
> Untrained/unexposed russian won't understand UA language.
As a Russian who is hosting Ukrainian refugees I can definitely say this is false. I can understand probably around 90% of raw speech in Ukrainian without any support and 0 prior experience.
No, Russia's goal is to keep Ukraine in their sphere of influence and prevent democracy from taking hold there, because if that happens in Ukraine people in Russia might start to think it's possible there as well. Also there are geographical reasons regarding border defense which are somewhat understandable, but overruling the will of the people of Ukraine for that is not considered acceptable anymore in this century.
Russia's actions in Bucha, Mariupol and just about everywhere in this war (Cherson during occupation comes to mind) have been horrid, as is its disregard for its own soldiers, many of whom are just used as cannon fodder. Russia is targetting civilians all over the place.
Those other wars are horrible too, but comparing them just by number of casualties is disingenious.
It is not for lack of trying on part of Russia. They send plenty of missiles in that direction. It's just that Kiev is protected by modern air defenses more than any other Ukrainian city.
So far Russia has not hesitated completely destroying relatively large Ukrainian cities. If you need a link to the pictures, let me know.
That's quite a russian narrative. Mariupol alone is in vicinity of 100k civilian casualties. Kyiv holds because of air defense and denying ru air superiority by shooting them down.
Ukrainians have plenty of issues with invading forces. Plenty.
Official UN statement is 1300 death in Maripol.
Please do not spread false info. Do some research first before talking. It creates a fake narrative where people fall into. Not good.
> “The actual death toll of hostilities on civilians is likely thousands higher,” UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Michelle Bachelet said... Bachelet added that right now it is "impossible to know" the exact death toll.
Even Russia doesn't think it's that low, and they've reason to want to undercount.
> Russian officials say that 3,000 civilians were killed in the attack on the Ukrainian city of Mariupol, in Moscow's first estimate of the death toll since the siege several months ago.
That’s not a reasonable reading of that statement.
> To date, OHCHR has verified 1,348 individual civilian deaths directly in hostilities in Mariupol, including 70 children. These deaths were caused by air strikes, tank and artillery shelling and small arms and light weapons during street fighting. The actual death toll of hostilities on civilians is likely thousands higher.
The other comments by the same poster in this thread do not lead to the “honest” conclusion.
If the UN says "To date, OHCHR has verified 1,348 individual civilian deaths directly in hostilities in Mariupol" and then some dude says "Official UN statement is 1300 death in Maripol" that is an honest reading.
It isn't an accurate reading, but if you spend any time at all on the internet you will detect that honest people are often quite inaccurate. And wrong even while being able to back their opinions up with evidence. But it still isn't fair to imply that they are liar, lying or spreading lies. They are just wrong. Happens to literally all of us.
Even if hypothetically he was a habitual liar in every other comment he ever made on HN, this is not a showcase of lying.
If I tell you I went to a McDonalds potato warehouse, and that I counted twenty potatoes, but "there's a lot left to count", it would not be a reasonable summary of my statement to say that "the warehouse contains twenty potatoes".
The ICC has arrest warrants out for Putin for his war crimes. I really can't believe you're wilfully this ignorant to say there has been no civilian targetting. How are cluster bombs on cities not pure indiscriminate murder?
Search video. For example, Kharkiv was targeted by cluster ammunition, that's norm. Moscow terrors to drive out disloyal population, to hinder economy, to distract defenses from the front.
"Poland forced Germany to attack" (1939) by Putin, Moscow propaganda supports genocide. Atrocities in Bucha, Izum is result. Relatives? They speak nothing or support "liberation" by occupants.
Yes, there are lots of family and friendship ties between the countries. It's sad that Putin has destroyed any chance of good relationships in the future, and basically solidified Ukraine as a nation in opposition to his aggression.
I lived in Ukraine and when you cross the border between Russia and Ukraine you will notice absolutely no difference. Everything is the same. People, infra, houses, food. Only the language is different.
Second the recommendation, learned a lot watching this.
If you don't have time to watch all 23 episodes, the last one is a bit of a summary, discussing the history of European imperialism and colonialism, particularly Nazi German imperialism (conquering Ukraine was a central strategic goal of WW2), and pointing out some European hypocrisy in their reckoning of this history, and how Russia is exploiting that to pursue its own imperialist and colonialist goals.
Timothy Snyder is the worst source, he is academic on payroll of government and 100% biased.
On top of having zero credentials yourself, you're also making some pretty weird, muddled arguments here:
"Snyder is on the government payroll! Okay so maybe he isn't. But Navalny attended Yale. And so did some people who ended up working for the government. So plainly Snyder in the pocket of ..."
As can be seen in the first seconds of the lectures, Timothy Snyder is a professor at Yale [1], a private university, so he cannot be considered a government employee.
Additionally, even in government run universities in the west, there is the concept of academic freedom[2], meaning that faculty are able to teach their material freely without having to fear retaliation from the government (in the United States, this is effectively limited to "tenured" professors, it's more general in other countries.)
By your argument, we should disregard everything Noam Chomsky says on politics because he is a professor (emeritus) at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, an elite university deeply interconnected with the government, and thus must be considered a mouthpiece for US government propaganda.
No. Can you people do not turn off your technical rooted in science pragmatic pedantic brain when talking about politics ? MIT is technical university, why I have to explain on HN that there is great difference between technical crowd from MIT and politicians who brewed at Yale ?
Yale have more in common with United States Military Academy At West Point where [1]
> The runner up after Harvard is Yale University, claiming 5 U.S presidents as alumni.
> Ulysses S. Grant and Dwight D. Eisenhower are the only 2 U.S. presidents who attended the United States Military Academy At West Point. They are also 2 of the most important military generals in American history
Except Ukrainians are prepared to fight Russia to preserve their freedom and independence, that's the main difference. The majority of Russians just put up with a totalitarian regime after another because that's what they were always used to do. Also there are language differences, but almost everybody over 40 in Ukraine can speak Russian, mainly because Moscow tried very hard and pretty much succeeded erasing their history and culture.
Even Russia is very diverse ethnicaly and culturaly, as expected of such a huge country. The differences between the Far East, Sankt Petersbug, Daghestan and Buryatia are quite significant.
And what’s your point? You could say the same about the US and Canada, or Australia and New Zealand, or any number of Spanish speaking countries in the Americas, or any number of countries in Europe, Africa, Asia... should we support one invading the other?
Care to provide some links apart from 'they said it on fox news'? Its exactly the type of narrative putin would like to push to marginalize another high profile murder, and we have seen he can be an expert with playing foreign powers and media against each other
He was only against the war in Ukraine when it became obvious it was not going to be a three day one and done operation.