http://www.bga-aeroweb.com/Defense/F-18-Super-Hornet.html
F-18E/F: $65.3 million (flyaway cost) or $80.7 million incl. support costs.
You'll see a number of places quoting slightly different per unit costs for an F-18E/F, but they cluster around that figure. The cost of an F-35 in the latest LRIP lot (8) was as follows:
That does not include an F-135 engine for each jet, which is anywhere from $10 to $15 million depending on the variant.
So while the F-35 is more expensive than the F-18, I do not believe the figures bear your "3x or more" assertion.
Also it's difficult to compare the operating costs of a fully mature aircraft like the F-18 with the F-35, which is still being tested and developed. I don't think that is an apples/apples comparison.
Disclaimer: all opinions my own, not those of my employer, etc.
Sorry, I was going off F/A-18D unit costs from Wikipedia rather than the Super Hornet. Still, ~2x the unit cost plus a 79% increase in support costs is nothing to sneeze at.
Well keep in mind that we are still in a low production rate situation. Production will ramp up greatly in the next few years, driving costs down further.
The costs I gave are the costs as contracted for LRIP lot 8, which consists of 43 aircraft. There are two more LRIP batches after LRIP 8, and then full rate production begins.
While I think the JSF is quite the boondoggle, this is not necessariy a fair comparison. We should expect the F-35 to cost quite a bit more in both upfront and operating costs; it is, after all, much more capable.
I think somewhere else on HN today there was mention of the famous discussion between Kissinger and Ellsberg about how the world seems different when you have access to information that most people don't.
I think most people that work on the F-35 feel that way.
I don't get your meaning here. Do those people feel like the typical high-clearance honcho that Ellsberg described, or like Ellsberg himself with the wisdom of years?
I can only speak for myself. I haven't had the super high clearances that Ellsberg talks about, but I do understand the feeling because of the work I do. I am paranoid about winding up like the "wisdom of years" version of Ellsberg though.
If one can assume that you have classified knowledge of the F-35 program, and one has seen the analyst's "can't turn, can't climb, can't run" statement, the "trust us we know stuff you don't" stuff rings really false, in today's reduced-trust context. If in fact that's what you're trying to say, because I find this statement to be if anything more impenetrable than the first.
The "can't turn, can't climb, can't run" stuff -- well, sure, compared to a clean F-16, or an F-22, or any number of other platforms, the F-35 has less maneuverability. This pilot says it better than I can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCZmPUQZGvw
To paraphrase him: is the F-35 the world's best pure dogfighter? No. Is it the best pure CAS aircraft? No. For everything else, how does it compare? It's better.
