-Dude posts (spams) Apache community mailing list with his scheme of fund-raising for apache http://jakarta.jp/en.pdf which is some sort of lottery scam.
-Dude gets shut down for spamming the list and trying to get acknowledgment on the thanks.xml page.
-Dude tries to argue using language technicalities.
-Dude gets shut down again, ie. he learns that donations do not equal ownership.
Yes, that more or less sums it up. In the past, he was also a sponsor of the ASF as well as a committer, so he has done good things, it just seems that he's going through some difficulties.
"Tetsuya, you have show the utmost lack of respect on this forum to the chairman of the organization, who in the most friendly and forgiving way attempted to nudge you away from inappropriate directions. No one else in this organization is so flexible. So your complaint falls on deaf ears."
That recommendation is based on some published case reports of suicide clusters, a phenomenon that has been recorded at least as far back as the Western record. The concern is directed more at repetitive, sensationalist reporting (their words). By comparison, I would say most of the comments on this thread are novel, considered, and skeptical. The more juvenile comments are identified and the posters are duly penalized. Of all the forums on the internet, the dynamics of this forum are probably most disposed toward good thinking coming out of a thread on suicide.
This thread exemplifies what's wrong with hacker news and why your start-ups fail, and will continue to fail.
You're discussing this man's LIFE as he cries out for help and you do nothing.
You take no initiative, only perform cynical analysis.
You're happier talking than doing.
You miss the point and get caught up in details.
You know what? I did my best here, and called an English speaking suicide hotline in Japan, but they're unable to contact people, they only can take anonymous calls. I gave all their information and information on Japanese language lines to Tetsuya via email. If anyone can speak Japanese, please try to contact someone who can reach out to Tetsuya in person, and leave a message here to coordinate. Restore my faith that the hacker news community is more than a collection of professional bullshitters. Help Tetsuya.
Or you just called the biggest thing in his life small. I don't think it's a good idea for people without a background in psychology to do anything other than to say "Don't do it".
Your comment implies that Tetsuya might somehow get offended or discouraged by a friendly note that tries to put things in perspective. Please. I'd take real human contact over a swarm of psychologists any day in his situation.
Dear Mr. Kitahata,
Please don't kill yourself. I have no idea what you're going through right now, but I can imagine that you feel a great weight on your shoulders and you might perceive a certain hopelessness in your circumstances. Someone very close to me has at times expressed suicidal thoughts and it pangs my heart to think of a world without him. In the end, all I can do is show him love and hope he reaches out to embrace that love. I would ask that you do the same. Please read the pleas from the dozens of people writing you and know there are hundreds more out there rooting for you to take the first step in helping yourself.
I agree, and I just sent him a note myself. I don't know about the rest of you but I've certainly experienced shit myself (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=69097), and it helped me when people empathized.
If this is serious, it is truly sad (in the sense of "pathetic", not "tragic"). Taking your life because of political reasons, not because there is something truly irreconcilable like bad health? What a waste...
Many people have beaten health ills. I know many young adults who beat cancer. Twelve months on chemotherapy and simultaneous months on radiation therapy. Does this really mean nothing to you? It's so different from what you feel. Alienation is a far more common feeling than the disintegration of your personal embodiment because of health...
This is an interesting post but I would suggest that comments about suicide in general are on a different discussion post. When talking about a specific individual compassion and respect is called for.
the people who threaten to commit suicide never go through it, especially the ones who threaten to do so publically and leave their email address. The whole "I'll take poison" and "I'll overdose on medicine" are the sure signs of a drama queen.
It's the ones who never talk about it, that usually man up to pull the trigger.
My guess is that either he is attention whoring, or he just got hacked(none of his other sites/profiles say this)
Middle-aged men are the most likely to give advance warning, are the most likely to carry through with that plan, and have the highest completion rate, after doctors.
Also, suicide is more common in Japan, and viewed differently by Japanese society:
"Suicide has never been criminalized in Japan. Japanese society's attitude toward suicide has been termed "tolerant", and on many occasions a suicide is seen as a morally responsible action."
Basically, middle-aged guy says he's going to commit suicide, that's one where you have to prove he won't. If he walked into the ER while I'm on, he's getting admitted.
I guess I don't see the point of your comment. What's the upside of you discouraging people from taking this seriously? The potential downside is rather obvious ...
I had a friend who always used to say he was going to kill himself. I too thought he was asking for attention until he drove his truck up the curb and took out two light polls right outside my window. vaksel, you are wrong.
Ps: he survived but I can assure you it was not an attention stunt. You would have had to see the accident scene to believe me
I would seriously recommend deleting this post. It is probably both the dumbest and most offensive thing I have ever read on this forum.
If anyone else posted this, their account would be killed and I don't think you would be an exception. It is something "you can't say" and would be enough to have you forcefully committed if someone thought you were a danger to yourself or others.
To address your original point: whether someone intends to go through with it or not, it should be appropriately interpreted as a cry of help. Who are we to ignore a cry for help?
well let's see, the post is about suicide, and I'm discussing motivations behind it.
So the way I read your comment, is that you are advocating for people to kill themselves quietly.
Why would my account be killed(interesting choice of words btw, considering the thread).
Can't there be a civil discussion about suicide? Why is that subject so taboo? Thinking like that is exactly why people take their lives without talking to anyone.
Ok so it's a cry for help...what exactly did you do to address his cry for help? Did you email the guy? Did you call him? Did you track down people close to him and had them talk to him? Or did you just upvote the submission, thinking you did your civic duty?...Did you even do that?
What EXACTLY did you do to "help"? Answer me that.
You're advocating taking innocent lives as a way to live life to its fullest? Kill others because you just couldn't take the pressure anymore?
The anger your post evoked in me has forced me to rewrite this sentence five times...this is the most peaceful response I can muster: your "philosophy" is psychopathic. I hope you grow up one day and realize the measure of your life is the number of lives you positively change...not the number you take with you on the way out.
who said anything about innocent lives, I'm talking about those people who you'd hold responsible for driving you to suicide.
Sure it's psychotic, but we aren't talking about a normal mentally balanced person. We are talking about someone who has already been driven so far, that they are considering taking their own life to make the pain stop.
"at least put your death to good use. Go buy some guns, go grab some ammo, then go on a killing spree"
This is what bothers me about your post. It's not the taboo of suicide, or your doubts that threats of suicide should be taken seriously. These are horrible sentiments, and I hope you don't mean a word of them.
Maybe he doesn't mean a word of them. But history is full, absolutely jam-packed, with examples of people seeking violent, terminal retribution for the injustices they perceive to have ruined their lives. Heard of a movie called Braveheart? Heard of a little comic book called V for Vendetta? Both examples of an aggrieved party fighting willingly to the death in an act of, essentially, revenge.
This is a real human emotion and downvoting will not just make it go away. How about some rational counterarguments, such as the injustice of taking innocent people with you, or the long-term futility of such an approach.
Pretty disappointing to see this kind of morally outraged pile-on here.
I was commenting on his sense that he was being downvoted because of a taboo around dismissing threats of suicide. He advocates violence with an argument of "Why not?", and your defense of it is that violent retribution is common. These are not rational arguments. And I have no idea where you got the impression that I thought downvoting would make the problem go away. For the record, I don't.
your statements about getting a bunch of guns, going out in a blaze of glory, etc, clearly indicate you are full of hope and would be justifiably pissed off if external forces pushed you toward suicide. This is in line with your desire to be remembered, your legacy, you want to have consequences.
I think a number of the negative responses toward you are from folks who have known death and have learned to cherish life the more thereby. They are deeply concerned by what may appear to be cavalier comments about killing. Justifiably so.
You're in a forum for hackers. Presumably you find the values of hackers to be admirable. And you seem to have put a lot of effort into pushing back. If I had to guess, you want someone to tell you why you're wrong, but not just tell you, you want them to prove it.
Well, instead, be a good hacker, and figure it out yourself. Go read up on suicide. Why people commit suicide. Here's a good place to start:
vaksel, you already admitted you don't understand why somebody would want to commit suicide. if you have to get all uppity about free speech and civil liberties on an internet forum right now (as if you are really saying anything novel), at least you could respect that you don't seem to have any knowledge of the topic. your post is accusatory and pointless at best.
American Foundation for Suicide Prevention: "Suicide can be prevented. While some suicides occur without any outward warning, most people who are suicidal do give warnings."
But let's move on summarize the rest of your drivel for those who can no longer read your grayed out words. You're not interested in any well established research that shows people who attempt and commit suicide commonly talk about it or warn ahead of time.
You're only relying on your "perspective"....that bad enough personal problems should be addressed by denial, isolation, theft, and mass murder.
Did we miss anything?
I agree with rms. Yours is probably the dumbest and most offensive post I've ever read on HN.
*Critical signs:
Direct or indirect threats to commit suicide
I think what you are saying is not in-line with the expert opinion. Regardless of whether or not it is true, I do not believe it is, but I'm not an expert, saying it or trying to convince others to believe it so they don't do something to avert a suicide in the case where someone threatens it is morally reprehensible.
The repercussion of you being wrong and someone listening to you is deadly. The repercussion of you being right and someone ignoring you could save a life.
You really need to be careful how you talk. It's really quite disgusting what you have said here.
Why are you looking for logic in an illogical act? Why are you expecting clear thought processes when someone is in the depths of some very muddy thinking?
I'm with RMS on this one. You claim you are "expressing your thoughts on suicide", but you really are only displaying your ignorance of how ill-equipped some people are at dealing with life - their fault or their parents - either way I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you live in a very walled off world.
Problem one: you consider depression and disappointment with life to be embarrasing. If you ever end up feeling like that yourself, you will immediately start spiralling downwards, because not only do you feel bad: you feel bad about feeling bad.
You talk about it, and you end up in a nuthouse.
Problem two: you don't know what the hell you are talking about. People that are considering suicide are not usually institutionalized. That only happens if they are also deemed mentally ill, like when they are psychotic.
Honestly I don't see why anyone would want to go through suicide. That's like admitting you lost,
Problem three: you think you can define what is 'winning' and 'losing' in life and that those are the same for everyone. News flash: some people feel you cannot win in life, for instance because there isn't, by definition, anything worth striving for.
If you think like killing yourself, at least put your death to good use. Go buy some guns, go grab some ammo, then go on a killing spree of all those people who screwed you over in life.
Problem four: you think executing revenge is a good use of your life. Most people, even when considering suicide, disagree. Not liking this life does not suddenly change your moral opinion on murder.
Problem five: you think people commit suicide because others 'screwed them over'.
suicides, they fade away from life, like they never existed. But go kill a few dozen people who screwed you over, and you might just get a round the clock news coverage.
Problem six: you think notoriety is important.
Problem seven: you think notoriety is important to someone considering suicide.
And yeah I know you guys will downvote the crap out of this, but I don't care, it's my philosophy on suicide.
Problem eight: poisoning the well.
Problem nine: thinking 'having a philosophy' entitles you taking a righteous attitude, completely failing to recognize you may be utterly wrong.
In summary: you don't know what you are talking about, you are repeating the culturally entrenched values that are the brethren of those that actually drive people to suicide and you are blissfully unaware of the fact that people considering suicide do not think rationally anymore.
Right, so your advice to someone wanting to kill themselves is to make sure they kill others too. That's about the absolute stupidest piece of advice I have ever been unfortunate to read. The only person wanting attention here is you. No one wants to hear your philosophy on suicide right now. Not only is it baseless, it's dangerous, inappropriate, and irrelevant to the topic. You've pretty much devalued all 20k of your karma points with that, to me personally.
Someone please delete this post. But don't bring others down with it!
We're all going to die. Why not put our "deaths" to good use by being a dick while we're still alive? Really?
We're defined by what we do in our lives (and to whom we do it) in the last minutes, and in all the years leading up to them. This idea of last minute anti-glory is as repugnant as it is ridiculous.
If you wait until the last seconds of you life to be who you really are, all that shows is cowardice.
The fact that you want to be remembered in a certain way shows that you still care. I understand that but it's more of a "revenge" kind of feeling. If something drove me to suicide, and I would certainly have to be driven to it, I'd also want to go out in a blaze of destructive glory. Well, I'd enjoy thinking about it, anyway.
Many suicidal people, though, just want their suffering to end. They can't find any reason or meaning in continuing and don't really care about anything after they die. This guy seems to be the second type, and he's just tying up loose ends (thanking his readers) before he goes.
Well, that's his right. I find it somewhat offensive that casual readers of news sites would presume to question his judgement. Maybe he will go through with it. Or maybe, faced with the reality of the act, he'll reconsider. Only he can have that realisation, only he can make that decision, and it's none of our damn business IMO.
-Dude posts (spams) Apache community mailing list with his scheme of fund-raising for apache http://jakarta.jp/en.pdf which is some sort of lottery scam.
-Dude gets shut down for spamming the list and trying to get acknowledgment on the thanks.xml page.
-Dude tries to argue using language technicalities.
-Dude gets shut down again, ie. he learns that donations do not equal ownership.
-Dude threatens suicide.