And this is where religion gets it all wrong, the claim that all that was made just for us is so totally off the wall that I find it hard to believe that religion is changing so slowly to reflect the reality as we know it today.
The biggest thing that I have learned from my religion is that there is that in the universe that is mysterious, bigger than us, and incomprehensible. Hubble Deep Space provides excellent supporting data.
I would prefer not to derail this great thread about Hubble with further talk about religion. I'll be happy to share my thoughts if you contact me off-line.
Have you read Thomas Aquinas in the original? Or even Maimonides?
There's a reason some minds stand the test of centuries, if not more. Those on the TV today are mere flickering quarks. Those whose names we still utter are galaxies of thought.
I think it's a mistake to dismiss, out-of-hand, the thoughts that lie at the foundations of Western civilization. Religious organizations have always been run by humans. Yet those structures also sheltered and promoted the arts and sciences for hundreds of years without a democracy in sight.
Consider: Your last statement is an example of itself.
Rejecting religion doesn't mean rejecting the religious.
What I think is great about religion is its ability to inspire people to go over and beyond their normal view of the world and to use it as scaffolding to reach higher planes of thought or art. I think JS Bach is a great example of that, but there are plenty more, in just about all fields of human endeavor, including science.
What gets me though is the bigotry and the use of fear and other cheap and demeaning tactics that use religion as a control instrument for large numbers of people.
This is where I have a real problem with religion, my feelings are that if everybody would stop for a little while to pander to the humans that claim to have a wire to their variation on the 'invisible man in the sky' that we might be able to concentrate on the real problems at hand.
Imagine the amazing stuff that could happen if a truly enlightened man became a religious leader (say, a Pope in the spirit of the Dalai Lama or something to that effect).
A lot of damage has been done, now it is time to go fix things, and fix them without being shackled down by the past, but carrying along the lessons from that past.
"a truly enlightened man", IMO Jesus was that man (and more) - but I know what response that will get here.
The point is not that a great leader come forward but that we choose to follow and imitate the greatest goodness, wisdom, kindness, self-control and love that we encounter.
I'm fairly sure that if Jesus Christ would walk the earth today that he would not be one to make it very high in the ranks of the various churches in his name.
I don't doubt your word that he was an enlightened man but for some reason those tend to get wielded out at a pretty early stage, they'd upset too many holy applecarts.
He wasn't exactly best friends with the sanhedrin (sp?, the powerful self-serving hypocritical religious leaders) in His day either; they turned him over to the Romans to be crucified after all. Upsetting holy applecarts was pretty much his thing ...
And this is where religion gets it all wrong, the claim that all that was made just for us is so totally off the wall that I find it hard to believe that religion is changing so slowly to reflect the reality as we know it today.