> This used to get on my nerves, how can people be so stupid? Why won't they just think for a moment!? But recently I've been focussing some effort on learning a language (Spanish) and realise that in that this case the first-principles style of learning that works so well for physics and maths is largely useless
I had the exact same experience. I'm an Engineer, and my entire life I've only been able to learn (and self-teach) by reasoning through first principles. When I can't reason it through, I don't want to learn it "just because"
I never put any effort into learning a language, and always thought it was "dumb". In high school I could say hello and count to 10 in a couple of languages, but that was it.
When I was 27 I started traveling through Central and South America, and wanted to learn Spanish. I honestly didn't know if I was capable, or if my brain and learning style would allow for it.
For the first couple of months I was frustrated and always saying things like "but that doesn't make any sense", "It should be like this" etc.
After a few months, I just stopped trying to reason it through and started going with it, like you said. After about a year and a half I stopped translating into English in my head, I started dreaming in Spanish, and I can now guess words and verb conjugations without consciously realizing I even know that given word. It first started happening when I was a little drunk, which is a good time for me to actually get stuff done in my head, because I stop trying to reason everything through and just go with it.
Stick with it, you'll get it. I can't more highly recommend immersing yourself for a prolonged period.
Thanks! Yeah, getting a little drunk may help, although there's definitely an optimal point after which it has the opposite effect!
Actually I'm living in Madrid now so kind of immersed, the problem is that my girlfriend and I tend to always speak English with each other and I don't need to use Spanish to work either. It's what led me to create my current project: http://readlang.com
That's a nice site. Having seen what you can do with live webcams, e.g. livejasmin (NSFW), I was thinking a similar model could work for language learning. The teachers could be paid. They wouldn't be contracted and they'd be minimally screened, but they'd accumulate popularity. Maybe this could be combined with the readlang model so that you could learn by reading a text together with a teacher. I think it's evident that learning from an actual person, especially one you can hear and practice with, is the most productive way of acquiring a language.
I haven't tried it but I hear that http://www.italki.com/ is pretty good for online Skype lessons where the teachers are paid and have reputations as you describe. Completely agree that interaction with a real person is very important.
I consider it a sign of a good idea when someone else has beaten you to it. Some of the XXX cam sites draw people in by allowing non-paying users to watch and chat, and once you get involved, you pay only for what you use. The home screen shows captures of current action, so it always looks like there's a lot going on. I think there's a formula in there for getting a self-sustaining system going.
I had the exact same experience. I'm an Engineer, and my entire life I've only been able to learn (and self-teach) by reasoning through first principles. When I can't reason it through, I don't want to learn it "just because"
I never put any effort into learning a language, and always thought it was "dumb". In high school I could say hello and count to 10 in a couple of languages, but that was it.
When I was 27 I started traveling through Central and South America, and wanted to learn Spanish. I honestly didn't know if I was capable, or if my brain and learning style would allow for it.
For the first couple of months I was frustrated and always saying things like "but that doesn't make any sense", "It should be like this" etc.
After a few months, I just stopped trying to reason it through and started going with it, like you said. After about a year and a half I stopped translating into English in my head, I started dreaming in Spanish, and I can now guess words and verb conjugations without consciously realizing I even know that given word. It first started happening when I was a little drunk, which is a good time for me to actually get stuff done in my head, because I stop trying to reason everything through and just go with it.
Stick with it, you'll get it. I can't more highly recommend immersing yourself for a prolonged period.