While I understand the sentiment, you stated it yourself, "It has always amazed me, because poverty is hell. Who wouldn't want to get out of that, and who wouldn't want his fellow brother to get out of that?". This is a puzzling question to ask and it shouldn't stop there. The post is very much trying to add some depth here, however it isn't targeting solutions for "poor" people, it is hoping to provoke those who are not to take the problem more seriously.
> I could talk about it here, but I would just get down voted [dead], [flagged] and so on.
Go ahead and just talk about it, I want to hear it. This isn't so easy a problem, even on an individual level as you put it.
My solution is boring, but it works for the individual who is in that situation: Go and work somewhere where you are provided food and board and a salary. Not only do you physically get yourself out of the environment which has dragged you down, you can also cut out expenses such as rent and even transportation. Which is huge.
Yes, it's not a fun solution. It won't make you rich. But it will take you out of being dirt poor, which the article is about. One example of those kind of places is the merchant navy. You're on a ship, so you don't have to spend any money and you can't even spend it. Instead of going on shore leave like the other people, just get extra days, or work on another ship on your leave days. I'm not going to mention the military, because people might have objections against killing and being killed, but it works in the same way.
While you're at it, you have the opportunity for a career or education. And entry level jobs are available for those who have the work ethic.
Monastic life is another such example, where you are at least provided for. And traditionally the monasteries have swallowed up millions of people who would have been dirt poor, and given them an alternative. Just like the merchant navy and the military has done the same for millions. You can arrive to these places with nothing but the clothes on your back, and start putting together your life again.
My suggestions can help some people, but not everybody. Because everybody is different. Let's continue complaining instead then?
But I've worked in places like this with people who were deaf and people who had limps, and people with a ton of other problems. And hundreds of thousands of people who have families work in the merchant navy to support them, or in other similar work places.
Sometimes (almost all the time) trying to talk about things on HN feels like having to argue that it is indeed possible to fry an egg or boil a cup of coffee...
Well I don’t think anyone is browsing this thread because they need a solution to their own poverty.
So we’re talking about general solutions for the country at large, and solution that only works for a few means there’s still the problem
of the rest of the poor to solve.
How do you know that? And how do you know that somebody reading here won't need a solution in the future? Or knows somebody who might?
But that was why I didn't want to write about it in the first place. People here don't take kindly to solutions, when it feels so good complaining about problems.
> What if the government had other jobs that paid food and shelter?
They do, various and sundry, e.g. making license plates.
I'm being glib, which is probably unforgivable under the circumstances, but people do this. Sometimes intentionally -- and, granted, there are often other issues in play -- but it's heartbreaking.
Right, and I can construct theoretical models where this works well!
But they're all ripe for abuse, and that makes them politically untenable.
As a layperson in such social matters, I'd guess the real-world abuse rate would be something like 10%. This is mathematically tolerable, and socially beneficial.
But even at 0% real-world abuse, there would be righteous opposition. And at 0% + 1 predictable example, it'd be politically toxic in most of the country.
These are not boring solutions, they are incredibly difficult, and unfair solutions for a poor individual to take. You may find this all very annoying and we hear you, thank you for expanding upon your earlier vague notions.
Unfair is being poor in the first place. Almost nobody in this world gets a fair hand. But is that reason not to change your situation and get out of the hell which is poverty?
I have to ask what you mean by incredibly difficult? These are just normal jobs, with no skill required to start.
Do you believe that the reason why most or all of the people in poverty are in poverty is because they want to, or because they are unwilling to change their situation? Because "poverty is a moral failure" is uh... not exactly a groundbreaking sentiment (it also, perhaps surprisingly, does nothing to solve the problem).
> The vast majority of mariners these days are third world nationals getting paid third world wages.
So? Is the third world not included in the original article? And also, that's like saying that you can't become a farmer or a teacher, because the vast majority of farmers or teachers in the world are third world nationals getting third world wages. The merchant navy also has many ships which only hire nationally.
As per the article, we are talking about being dirt poor. In that case, in the merchant navy you get food, board, medical attention and on top of that a salary. Which may be good or very small. If you have better options, please feel free to ignore my advice. It is for those who don't have any better option, but it is always impossible among hackers to get this through. Maybe we should discuss a few hundred miles of text more about how to change the system, rather than talk about real and actionable advice?
> Becoming a full-time monk is a slow and demanding process that takes years, you can't just rock up at a monastery and become one.
> Go and work somewhere where you are provided food and board and a salary
Where can I easily sign up for such a situation? And mind you I mean the average person signing up, not that `anyone` could sign up.
I've looked at downgrading myself in the economy and the standard reaction is that the employers at that level dont like the idea that I know whats going on or have skills and dont want to take me on as "overqualified"
You might as well say, "let them eat cake" when your argument is just to find a job. Employers arent hiring.
Food, board and $1500 per month. That's a life line out of absolute poverty for any person who is willing to take it.
I know that hackers hate it, because the truth is that deep down most of you have a caste mentality and think that people who are born poor should stay poor, and dependent on government handouts. All discussion about "changing the system" is just for show so you can feel good about yourself and pat each other on the back, while things remain the same.
So hackers are provoked by people taking their destiny in their own hands and clawing their way out of poverty by virtue of their own honest labour. How dare they leave the ghetto behind, when they belong there?
Oh, so you mean be driftless as well. I thought you meant room and board in a community.
It is ridiculous of you think this sort of job is the solution to poverty at any amount of scale.
> So hackers are provoked by people taking their destiny in their own hands and clawing their way out of poverty by virtue of their own honest labour.
Hackers on this board are provoked when people suggest ways of taking destiny into their own hands that removes power from the tech billionaires, they are not provoked when someone finds a job
To be fair, "why don't we just exploit the poor?" is a very popular sentiment among people who claim to care about the impoverished. Indeed, it's how most of the world has operated forever.
> I could talk about it here, but I would just get down voted [dead], [flagged] and so on.
Go ahead and just talk about it, I want to hear it. This isn't so easy a problem, even on an individual level as you put it.