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Technocracies have a pretty bad record unironically. Places which let lawyers run society do better than places which let engineers run it.

Edit, since I can't make a post right now since HN thinks I've posted too much, here's some examples of technoracies:

"The former government of the Soviet Union has been referred to as a technocracy.[20] Soviet leaders like Leonid Brezhnev often had a technical background. In 1986, 89% of Politburo members were engineers.[20] "

"Many previous leaders of the Chinese Communist Party had backgrounds in engineering and practical sciences. According to surveys of municipal governments of cities with a population of 1 million or more in China, it has been found that over 80% of government personnel had a technical education"

"Since the 1990s, Italy has had several such governments (in Italian, governo tecnico) in times of economic or political crisis,[27][28] including the formation in which economist Mario Monti presided over a cabinet of unelected professionals."

"The term 'technocratic' has been applied to governments where a cabinet of elected professional politicians is led by an unelected prime minister, such as in the cases of the 2011-2012 Greek government led by economist Lucas Papademos and the Czech Republic's 2009–2010 caretaker government presided over by the state's chief statistician, Jan Fischer.[3][31] In December 2013, in the framework of the national dialogue facilitated by the Tunisian National Dialogue Quartet, political parties in Tunisia agreed to install a technocratic government led by Mehdi Jomaa."

"The Syrian Salvation Government, the predecessor to the Syrian transitional government,[33] was characterized by observers as an authoritarian technocracy"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy



The problem with technocracies is that government faces choices that aren't a question that can be answered by some neutral evaluation but are instead questions of whose interests are prioritized or what values are enforced.

However there ARE questions that can be neutrally evaluated, or at least where neutral evaluation can narrow the field of reasonable decisions. Medical policy is replete with decisions like this, and so we really should be consulting experts and strongly listening to their decisions in this field.


Can you provide examples of such a place? From my perspective, I find it difficult to believe that this has ever been attempted at a scale that is sufficient to come to that conclusion. I'd love to hear otherwise.


A "true" technocracy has never been, but China has exhibited the only "almost" example during the late 20th century. That was the period when they transformed from a sustenance-farming backwater to a powerhouse on the world stage.

Of course, it is always easy for a backwater to play catchup after someone else has already figured out how to advance. It is difficult to attribute that success to technocracy, and it is likely that any system could have allowed the same forward momentum, but the correlated track record is quite good regardless.

The USA flirted with the idea of technocracy around the time of the Great Depression. That is, perhaps, where the "bad record" idea has come from, but that's a pretty big leap.


I feel like they are coming with the same energy as "socialism never works and always fails....because we make it fail."


In my experience organizations ruled by lawyers are ruled by inertia. You can delegate any question to a lawyer who will advise you to not do anything


If they’re being delegated decision making they are, by definition, not running things.


As in, "running things" by being the last decider, the class with the most power in the system, etc

Just as the king of england is the head of state yet not the source of power


> Just as the king of england is the head of state yet not the source of power

The king of England doesn’t run Britain in any sense.

American oligarchs exercise more political power than he does.


The king of england ran england while his (the institution) power eroded until he started working for the british parliament/government

the point being, official institutions are not always the strongest in the state, a state can be practically ruled by lawyers while having a functioning government


> king of england ran england while his (the institution) power eroded until he started working for the british parliament/government

So by “running things” you mean person whose ancestors ran things. Q. E. D.

Your top comment does not describe “organizations ruled by lawyers.”


Let me clarify again because it seems you haven't really understood what I meant.

The british king example is how a country can evolve from one point of power to another over time, while keeping the existing institutions.

When imagining a system of government ruled by lawyers, I see it similar to an organization ruled by lawyers. In such organization/government the leaders are afraid of doing and thus are using lawyers as their excuse not to do anything.

Because of the vacuum of power, essentially the only policies actually being enacted are decided by the lawyers, which is whatever makes their job easier (minimum legal risk, minimum interpretations)


> When imagining a system of government ruled by lawyers, I see it similar to an organization ruled by lawyers. In such organization/government the leaders are afraid of doing and thus are using lawyers as their excuse not to do anything.

My point is you're not describing an organisation ruled by lawyers. You're describing one ruled by nobody.

It would be like me saying organisations led by engineers don't work because if I imagine an organisation where the engineers aren't actually in charge, but someone asks an engineer whenever they don't want to make a decision, it doesn't work.


So, here I don't agree, when no one steps up to take decisions someone will, and in some organization these are lawyers. If the decisions are taken by lawyers, it doesn't matter there's someone that has the title CEO like it doesn't matter that someone has the title King

Others might imagine a parliament system as a system where the lawyers are in control, I don't think that's the case with parliaments


Of course, likewise, the best engineering is to do nothing. All actions have consequences, and while engineers may not look at the exact same consequences as lawyers, they are both equally concerned about consequences.

But sitting back and doing nothing on the basis of their worry wouldn't fly in the real world. If such a hypothetical government existed, the leaders would have to act, else be quickly overthrown. Power is only able to be held if the people want to give it to you.


> Places which let lawyers run society do better than places which let engineers run it.

Can you provide any examples?


Weird to throw China in there as an example of a failed technocracy. They’re currently performing so well that it’s considered a massive problem.

They’re not perfect, but frankly they humiliate the US in a lot of areas because the US system is too sclerotic to adapt and improve.




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