Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

> Having a car is not a necessity. It should be seen (and taxed) as a luxury

It is unfortunately a necessity in many parts of America where public transportation is lacking or nonexistent.

And making it a "luxury" just further stratifies our society into different, non-interacting economic classes. When things start becoming "privileges", you get a privileged class who cares less and less about the quality of life of those in lesser classes, shaping society to benefit their lifestyles at the expense of others.

As someone who grew up in abject poverty in a very rural area and was homeless and on completely on my own by 16, I have already seen how this plays out. The trajectory of my life was majorly affected by a lack of a car or adequate public transportation. I have since had to make choices about where I live in order to minimize car use in order to align with my own philosophy around transportation, but it comes at great cost in America when such walkable cities are so desirable that cost of living shoots through the roof due to demand. And conversely, poorer areas often lack walkability or sufficient and accessible public transportation.

Berlin does not have the same problems as America, a sprawling empire in decline.



> When things start becoming "privileges", you get a privileged class who cares less and less about the quality of life of those in lesser classes, shaping society to benefit their lifestyles at the expense of others.

I'll never forget one of my last lectures from my high-school History class teacher. She said "People talk about societies in terms of two classes: the kings and the plebs, the haves and have-nots, the bourgeoisie and the proletariat. I hope you managed to learn that throughout all of history, what we have is actually three different forces - priests or monks in Ancient times, or the merchants during the Renaissance, land owners in the US - and that it's this third class that is crucial in determining the course of History. Every time they aligned with the elites there was no change in the status quo, and every time a revolution happened was because they in the middle shifted their support to the other side."

I'm saying this for one simple reason: the way to fix this problem is not by pretending that car ownership isn't a luxury, but by de-stigmatizing public transport. I can bet you that if political forces shifted and started putting pressure against car-ownership, you would quickly see a swing from the middle class in support for better public transit, mixed-use zoning, YIMBY-ism, etc.

"A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It’s where the rich use public transportation"


> de-stigmatizing public transport

I don't avoid it because of "stigma" but lived experience where it takes 2x as long to get anywhere and I'm far more likely to get assaulted by some rando while minding my own business or having to deal with someone else's bodily fluids or public intoxication.

But I loved public transport back in places and times where I felt safer.


Are you campaigning with your city council to favor more/better public transit options? Are you discussing with your neighbors about changing zoning laws so that small business and shops can be located closer to you?


> Are you campaigning with your city council to favor more/better public transit options?

Why would I do this? It's just not possible for public transit to provide equal quality of service to a private vehicle unless I lived in one of the most densely populated areas on Earth, which I do not (though I do live in a major metropolitan area).

On top of that, my area has spent tens of billions to expand the subway system, to little effect and with many, many delays and cost increases that indicate that the local government is not capable of successfully managing a large scale infrastructure project.

> Are you discussing with your neighbors about changing zoning laws so that small business and shops can be located closer to you?

I already live in a pretty walkable area and things are already trending towards making things even more walkable, so no I'm not because it's not needed.


I feel like you just skipped over half of the problem keeping people from using the public transport that does exist.


No, I did not. I understand that right now you might prefer to use car because you can not rely on public transit and you don't feel safe.

My question is the sense of "are you doing anything to change this reality, or are you just going to accept that now that you have a car you see no point in advocating better public transit for your community?"


> you don't feel safe.

I cited lived experience, not feelings, and it's hard to see how expanding transport more is going to fix that when they don't care for what we have now.


> it's hard to see how expanding transport more is going to fix that when they don't care for what we have now.

Improvements in public transport could be made simply by having more frequent buses on a route, for example. Or longer hours of operation. Or (in the cities that have them) getting streetcars to be properly isolated from the cars. Sometimes it can be as simple as having the bus stops properly illuminated so that people feel more safe waiting for the bus at night.

Any of these improvements can make a big difference in ridership numbers, and any increase in public transit adoption is better for everyone. More people using public transport means less cars on the road and less traffic for those who still depend on a car.

To go back to the original point: I'm hoping you realize that what I'm trying to do is that we are exactly part of the pendulum that my History teacher was talking about. If you wish to live in a less car-centric society and if you wish that more people had access to fair, safe and affordable public transit, then it's up to people like you to push for this change.


You're arguing with people talking about how things are currently by talking about how things could be or should be and how people should change how things are.

That can be a great topic on its own, but it's not the same topic others are discussing.

And unless I missed it, you didn't say "let's switch the topic", you just went off in your own direction.


Of course they did.

I've never met an online public transit advocate who didn't come off as a zealot, lecturing the uninformed masses about the obvious benefits that will come from joining them while dismissing any criticism or skepticism as ignorance.


And I have never meet an American that was not fat.


Then you haven't met many Americans.

Unfortunately, I encounter many, many, many more public transit zealots online (and in person, though much less frequently) than I need to hear parrot the same talking points from fuckcars and NotJustBikes about the joys of living in an efficiency apartment and using a cargo bike to get my kids to and from their 3 different schools in the snow or blistering heat while ranting about vague "externalities" without ever providing actual numbers.


How much do you weigth?


Having a <house> is not a necessity. It should be taxed as a luxury.

Having a <hot shower> is not a necessity. It should be taxed as a luxury.

... Well this line of reasoning isn't very good.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: