But the solution to that is not making some other people disappear in order to make some room for Jews. And they have already stolen half of Palestine and turned it into their own state and that state is - despite its illegal origin - now internationally recognized and therefore unlikely to be undone. They just have to be satisfied with what they took and stop attempting to take the rest of Palestine, too.
> Israel as a society is much more tolerant and does not make human shields with their own population.
It is an objective fact that Israel has killed almost 20,000 Palestinian children since the beginning of the latest conflict (post Oct 7, 2023).
For comparison, a total of less than 1,200 Israeli's were killed. Which is also unacceptable and Hamas should be condemned. But Israel's continued slaughter of innocent children has gone beyond "defending themselves" and is just as bad, if not worse, than what they claim the other side to be.
You blame Hamas for using people as shields, but do you think Israel is justified in killing all these innocent children in the first place?
> You blame Hamas for using people as shields, but do you think Israel is justified in killing all these innocent children in the first place?
No. I do not justify it. What I say is that Hamas is literally a group that does not care even about their own people as facts show. They usually falsify the data also. So I am not sure how that data is but I acknowledge this is wild.
When I think of these things I think that governments and rulers are what they are. But I wonder if you were a palestinian being a human shield of a piece of rubbish or were an Israelian that wants to take kids to school and you see how they launch missiles from the Gaza side as a routine from schools and hospitals, what would you do? It is a very desperate thing for a civil person.
I prefer to not make criminals out of whom are not criminals. So Hamas and probably Netanyahu are both criminals. But the poor people from Palestine are basically kidnapped by their own governors to an extent that is hardly bearable IMHO. Israel people are also people like you and I and they have a reasonable fear of being smashed. It is not for fun that Israel has spent a huge amount of its GDP in military stuff. They do not do it for fun, whatever people try to convince me of.
It is a really complex situation, that's all. No innocent deserves to die in either side. I just try to make reasonable descriptions of what I see. I am mostly neutral, even with my bias.
I appreciate you sharing your viewpoint. And I should clarify that when I say "Israel" I'm referring to the state and its military, not individual Israeli citizens who probably have nothing to do with the killings.
> It is a really complex situation, that's all. No innocent deserves to die in either side.
Absolutely no innocent deserves to die on either side, 100% agreed. I still don't think the killing children part is complicated at all - there's zero justification for it. But the overall situation is definitely very complicated due to a long history of conflict on all fronts.
> They usually falsify the data also. So I am not sure how that data is but I acknowledge this is wild.
The death toll numbers I used are from a peer-reviewed UK publication that more or less corroborates the numbers reported by Gaza itself.
> The death toll numbers I used are from a peer-reviewed UK publication that more or less corroborates the numbers reported by Gaza itself.
I am quite skeptical of that data to be totally honest. What I found over the years is falsification after falsification. It is a fact that this has happened. We all know. But it is also the common thing that those numbers are inflated.
> I still don't think the killing children part is complicated at all - there's zero justification for it.
So if hamas has a child hostage in every arm warehouse (which is more or less what happens) and with every terrorist squad the only justified action for Israelis is... to die?
How does anyone not see that condemnation is not nearly enough? Hamas need eliminating, not merely "condemned".
Anyone arguing against the need to defeat Hamas in the place they launch attacks from and hold hostages in, is peddling a woefully broken, illogical argument. A war is happening. In war, you have enemies. "We should condemn our enemies" sounds like some kind of captain obvious baby talk.
