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Money quote:

> readings of PFAS that exceed EPA limits have been found in just 8% of small public water systems (those that serve fewer than 10,000 people) and 15% of large ones

15%!

Anyone who trusts their municipal water supply because of *handwave* regulations and reports needs to read that again.

Even if my water were 100% pristine as the author's apparently is, which they only know for their own homes because they've tested it at their taps half a dozen times with different laboratories, my tap water still tastes awful, and maintaining a dedicated three stage filter spout next to my kitchen faucet costs me approximately nothing and provides substantially better tasting water. And I don't need to worry about whether I live in the next Flint, Michigan.

It took two whole years for administrators in Flint, Michigan to acknowledge their lead pipe crisis. What your treatment plant claims it does and what your municipal government claims your safety profile is do not matter one bit if you aren't constantly testing the water actually coming out of your taps.

I'd rather just filter my water. It's much less hassle and I get better tasting water as a nice bonus.



Your filter system is not set up for water that is microbiologically unsafe to drink.

And if that filter setup also has an RO system your cost is more, as with RO you have a certain amount of rejection rate.


I trust my municipality to give me microbiologically safe water.

Because I trust bleach, not my local water authority.

I certainly do not trust them to give me chemically clean water. So I have a $150 under-sink RO system.


Only third world problems. In advanced societies we don't care about unsafe water because we can drink tap water. (Sure, the US is third world)


Is there a chance it can get contaminated with bacteria? I worry about the water sitting in there.


I've thought about this, but I don't think so. My last two paragraphs addresses what I think are RO's risks.

First there has to be bacteria in the municipal water. The city does a pretty good job there,

Second there has to be organic matter for the bacteria to grow. Again, cities are good with that.

But even if you have bacteria in your water, a good RO system's pores should be smaller than a virus (really smaller than a prion) or it won't be able to remove metallic ions.

But let's assume after two years these assumptions fail because the filters get old. Replace the filters and flush the system with bleach.

My fear with RO are bad filters. I once had a Zero pitcher and it tasted bad, acidic. A few weeks later there was a recall that the RO membrane was leaking ionomers.

Moral of the story- trust your senses. If municipal water tastes bad, it's bad. If bottled water tastes bad, it's bad. If RO water tastes bad, it's bad.


From someone that keeps aquariums, municipal water that is stripped of it's chlorine by carbon has the ingredients to grow bacteria. They need three things, carbon, phosphate and nitrogen, all of which will be present to varying degrees. Particularly nitrates and phosphates. They're not harmful until concentrations are really high but certainly enough to grow bacteria.

Also consider what your holding tank and supply to the water, either through leaching, accumulation or simply time


Now strip it with an RO filter.


RO (without DI) does not remove everything. With an advanced setup like with a booster pump and a 5:1 waste ratio and a high quality filter you would probably see a 95% reduction.

But without a booster pump or if you've got a lower waste ratio either by restriction or piggyback ro membranes you'll have a lower rejection rate.

And that ignores the fact the you really need to be back flushing the membrane regularly and rejection rates are measured after 30 minutes of continuous running, ions migrate when it's idle so you have to throw away a lot of water at the start that you're probably not doing


A properly working RO system will prevent viruses and bacteria from passing. For the extra paranoid you can get systems with a UV sterilisation step.


Just to add, most municipalities chlorinate the water slightly, so its highly unlikely youll find anything alive in it.

My water is fairly heavily chlorinated where i live compared to my previous county.

Letting the glass of water sit in open for a few minutes after pouring helps with taste because the chlorine evaporates.


If you have a lot of chlorine taste just having a pitcher in the fridge will nearly eliminate the chlorine taste.


last time i made calculation, it was still cheaper than bottled water


> Anyone who trusts their municipal water supply because of handwave regulations and reports needs to read that again.

A better approach is to decide whether your municipality meets or exceeds guidelines (the 85% that do).

I trust my city (in New Zealand), but there are other cities I wouldn’t because their water infrastructure is old and under funded, or because of known problems in the recent past.


> and maintaining a dedicated three stage filter spout next to my kitchen faucet costs me approximately nothing

Calling bullshit on this one. I have one, it's positively wonderful, but the filters are expensive and per the manufacturer's recommendation you're supposed to change them all simultaneously. So when one times out, they all time out. This runs approximately $150 a year minimum depending on usage.


> This runs approximately $150 a year

$150 per YEAR at american prices is approximately nothing. That's a measly 41 cents a day.

People spend far far more than that on far far more frivolous things without thinking twice.


People spend an order of magnitude (and much more) on coffee every day, never mind smokers or drinkers who spend crazy amounts just to hurt themselves.

Not that I don't love and respect Wirecutter (I don't), but I'm on team "I like how my water tastes when it's filtered."


I suspect for most people posting here, $150 per year is "approximately nothing".


> So when one times out, they all time out

Some units give you different fixed timespans for each. For that reason, I just use the Reverse Osmosis stage and ignore the rest. RO is the last step, and in theory it renders pure water meaning the only reason to have the previous ones is to pre-filter somewhat the water and extend the RO cartridge lifespan. Problem with that is, first, there's no way to gauge when each filter is spent. Second, they're priced the same anyway, so why even bother. Just go straight from tap to RO! Keep the post re-mineralization stage if you want.


pre-filters typically have specified "capacity" in gallons. which is measurable. also if water is very dirty filters get clogged and pressure dropped. it's also measurable.

"post re-mineralization stage" is actually "ph adjustment".


I know pressure drops. The problem is knowing which filter is the one causing it in particular. Also, filters that are spent at different rates are a PITA. What I mean is if you are going to feed it nominally clean tap water, there's no reason to protect a catridge with equally or more expensive cartridges. Just use the RO filter and be done with it.


you can put pressure guages in between or one of $10 flow meters before system.

RO membrane doesn't remove chlorine iirc or vocs. On the other side chlorine degrades membrane. "nominally clean tap water" can have enough dirt to clog membrane if you don't auto backflush it frequently


It isnt merely ph adjustment... You want some amount of minerals in water for your health, plants, and taste. Changing the PH isnt the concern in most cases, its just part of the result.


All those filters are specifically made for PH adjustment (you are welcome to look at specs). There are bunch of different formulations depends on how much PH adjustment is needed.

RO makes water more acidic. if water was somewhat acidic to start with, it can get more acidic or become corrosive.


The spec doesn't tell you intent it tells you the resulting product performance.

Ph change is one part of the result, not the goal. The goal is water purification.


i am talking here about post-filters for PH adjustment. their goal is PH adjustments

those for example https://www.freshwatersystems.com/collections/specialty-cart...

or those https://www.freshwatersystems.com/collections/filters-media?...


Are you sure that it makes it more acidic? AFAIK it only outputs pure H20, should be neutral. If you feed it alkaline water you'll get "more acidic" water, but the other way if you feed it acidic water.


yes. it removes calcium and magnesium and it makes water more acidic. also i think it starts absorbing CO2 making it even more acidic.

RO doesn't output pure water. if you want pure water you slap DI filter after RO membrane.


you're right, a little oversight from me.


Food gives you all the minerals you need. Matter of fact food can cover most of your hydration needs.


True. But have tasted distilled water? Tastes metalic. Probably just my imagination but I feel like it pulls stuff from the mucous in your mouth and tastes like blood.


It is your imagination. I drink distilled water all the time and it tastes great, not metallic at all.


you sure it's distilled? if you measure dissolved solids with a water quality tester does it read 0?


What system are you using? My five stage filter system has me replace the charcoal filters once a year and the RO every... three? Maybe five?

But let's assume it costs you $150 a year. Thats less than $0.50 a day for drinking and cooking water. I doubt you could buy any significant amount of bottled water for fifty cents.


filters are cheap if you don't use fancy branded system that came up with it's own filter that incompatible with anything else


You generally want to avoid cheap filters as they apparently can be tainted with formaldehyde


standard, 2x10 filters from well known brands (pentek, apec or membranes from dow filmtec) are "cheap" compared to non-standard filters.


Have you tested your filtered water in “ half a dozen times with different laboratories”?


> three stage filter spout

... But does it remove the PFAs?


You can read the independent test data sheet: https://www.brondell.com/content/UC300_Coral_PDS.pdf

But if you want a full RO system, go for it. They cost only slightly more and just take up more room under the sink.


I'm failing to see your point. If you think it helps -- whether because of taste or personal trust issues or something else -- then great, filter your water. You do you.

The article is clearly for someone who is otherwise on the fence and doesn't have those issues.


> I'm failing to see your point

That's weird because I'm pretty sure that my point is explicitly spelled out. But just in case, here it is again:

If your trust is based in municipal numbers or statements, you should be aware that municipal numbers and statements are not trustworthy because there's a lot of widespread decaying infrastructure (and coverup!) between where they test, what they make public, and where your water comes out of your faucet.

And if your trust is based on "Rah, rah, America!", you should know that 15% (!!) of water systems serving over 10k people have PFAS levels measured above what the EPA says is safe. (And if you don't think that 15% is a lot, holy smokes, that's nuts.)

So if you aren't testing your tap constantly then you have no idea what your water is like, no matter what the city says their water is like.

And if you are testing your taps constantly, it's less hassle and gives a better result to just filter your water instead.

The author says "I don't filter because I constantly test my taps and they're good each time." That's not the same at all as saying that filtering isn't a generally good idea, especially for anyone who isn't constantly testing their taps. The author ALSO says "a fuckton of you have more PFAS in your water than the EPA says is safe, just not me, lol". The author also chooses to ignore that their good water today may become bad tomorrow.


Do you test your water after its been through the filters? I'd have some concerns about putting my trust in some random filter company.


And to that extend do you trust the company creating the test kit? Or their suppliers?


> That's weird because I'm pretty sure that my point is explicitly spelled out.

Yeah I read it the first time, so repeating it is non responsive. The article was about one person's opinion on the subject of water filters. Your opinion is just one more in a sea of opinions. It's not like the author hid those numbers that you keep repeating -- you're just (again, repeatedly) saying they're scarier than the author felt they were.

> And if your trust is based on "Rah, rah, America!", you should know that 15% (!!) of water systems serving over 10k people have PFAS levels measured above what the EPA says is safe. (And if you don't think that 15% is a lot, holy smokes, that's nuts.)

Yeah, OK. So basically you just want everyone to be as scared as you are.

I don't have a strong opinion on the matter, but your "holy smokes, that's nuts" is worth approximately what I paid to read it. That goes for the author, too, btw.


>> municipal numbers and statements are not trustworthy

The claims of the manufacturers of filters, of course, are completely trustworthy. If you aren't testing the capabilities of your filters constantly, this is fine.


I don't trust the manufacturer, but I can test the manufacturers water.

I don't trust my municipality because they cheaped out on the corrosion inhibitors chemistry, leached lead into the water and my house is now filled with developing pinhole leaks. I've had five in four years.

Hint, I don't live anywhere near Flint MI.


You can test the filter manufacturer's water but you can't test the municipality's water?

Strange days indeed.


The probability of getting a positive test for lead given that I already know the city messed up and there's lead in the water is 100%.

So why test?


You can sue a manufacturer for lying about independent testing and certification. Good luck suing your county.


If you win the lawsuit against the manufacturer, do you get your health back?


The point is they have a reputation to uphold and not just skin in the game but multiple peoples livelihoods.

Just one or two bad test results, or one failed audit, can sink a business like that.

The county can have thousands of people scream for years (flint, Michigan) without panicking.




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