It's worth considering the case of Anwar al-Awlaki, an American citizen, that was killed by Obama outside of a combat zone. (I'm avoiding the word "assassinated" because it seems overly charged.)
In theory, some prosector could have decided to charge Obama with a crime, and maybe even achieved a conviction in a jurisdiction where he's unpopular.
This decision says that shouldn't happen because it was an official act as president.
Of course, if congress doesn't like something a president is doing, they can change the laws and remove his or her legal authority to do something.
> if congress doesn't like something a president is doing, they can change the laws and remove his or her legal authority to do something.
Yep. The ruling says that if the President is acting within the legally and constitutionally defined scope of their duties then they shouldn't have to wonder if they'll later be prosecuted for it.
That seems fine on its face, but the problem people keep raising is that we live in a world where the President is legally empowered to do things that are seriously problematic. That's a very real concern, and it's been a concern at the very least since Bush and 9/11.
So the obvious answer to this ruling is to fix that. The President shouldn't have to wonder if they'll end up prosecuted for doing things that are within the scope of their official duties, so what we need to do is more clearly define and limit those official duties so that the President doesn't have to guess what will be seen as crossing an imaginary line when the administration changes.
> The ruling says that if the President is acting within the legally and constitutionally defined scope of their duties then they shouldn't have to wonder if they'll later be prosecuted for it.
The other big problem is how do you resolve a question of whether the president is acting within the legally and constitutionally defined scope of their duties? If there is a presumption of immunity and precluded from examining motive, it may be nearly impossible to establish the facts in cases where the president is acting improperly.
> If there is a presumption of immunity, it may be nearly impossible to establish the facts in cases where the president is acting improperly.
Well yeah that's true. But uh, you are talking lawyer talk with a set of opinions, insincerely held, because they are most concerned with "owning the libs" above everything else.
This is the obvious answer to any supreme court ruling you want to change: congress can simply change the law/constitution.
A giant part of the issue of commonlaw systems is that so much of the "law" is not laws but rulings and those are a lot easier to change/ignore/overrule.
"Change the law" versus "change the constitution" are two very different things.
The US couldn't pass the ERA, which just enshrines women's rights in the Constitution. Anything more controversial like "the President can't do extrajudicial murders" would be an endless partisan battle
No. The remedy Congress has is impeachment, not “change the Constitution”. Even if Congress could easily change the Constitution (they can’t), it would not apply to actions taken previous to the change.
Whether laws can be applied retroactively is decided by the constitution :)
But yes, what I meant is that the supreme court has the power to interpret the law and uphold the constitution, but it is on the legislation to draft precise laws.
> That seems fine on its face, but the problem people keep raising is that we live in a world where the President is legally empowered to do things that are seriously problematic. That's a very real concern, and it's been a concern at the very least since Bush and 9/11.
I agree with you - it's not like Bush has been held accountable in any way. Neither has Cheney, and we know Rumsfeld never will. Congress needs to get off its' duff and regulate. That requires people to organize to make them. I'm not seeing it happen.
The case of Anwar al-Awlaki is exactly the kind of case where I think the president should face criminal liability for murder. Although, as he was murdered in a foreign country, no court in the US has jurisdiction for the president to be prosecuted; but if he had been murdered on US soil, it would be absolutely appropriate for a jury to decide whether or not it is justifiable for the president to order the death of somebody merely for speaking the wrong words.
Another topic that hasn't come up quite as much is the fact that this is an immunity proposition, not a defense. What SCOTUS is saying is that we aren't permitted to even ask if the president is reasonable in his beliefs; any trial on the merits is completely and totally foreclosed--that's what immunity means. Just a few days ago, SCOTUS decided that it's absolutely important that administrative law procedures need to go through the step of being heard by a jury trial, and now here it's saying that it's absolutely important that the president never be burdened by the prospect of having to have a jury weigh their actions.
It's just... really galling that SCOTUS would decide that the constitution requires that the president be a king above the law, exactly the sort of thing that England fought a few civil wars over before the US even sought its independence.
> as he was murdered in a foreign country, no court in the US has jurisdiction for the president to be prosecuted
You're underestimating the creativity of prosecutors. :)
For example, they could have charged him with conspiracy to commit murder in any location where Obama met with others to discuss killing al-Awlaki.
Or a future president, like Trump, could have pressured a federal prosecutors to bring charges in Federal Court, since they can bring charges for crimes committed against Americans globally.
That's not true. He was a sitting president, elected in 1968, and a bunch of the scandal was about his re-election campaign in 1972. He was successfully re-elected to a second term but then those events caught up with him over the following two years, causing him to resign in 1974.
> This decision says that shouldn't happen because it was an official act as president.
And of course, if it's something that the Supreme Court wants a president to face consequences for for partisan reasons, they can simply use their majority to say that whatever they didn't like was not an official act.
I can't tell what your stance is on the al-Awlaki assassination? If the leader of a country orders an extra-judicial killing, especially of one of their own citizens, that seems like it deserves criminal penalties.
People get very judgemental when Putin assassinates defectors, but when Obama does it it's ok?
I know this is what you're saying but just to head any other knee-jerk responses, US citizens do not lose their rights to a trial in the US, for breaking a US law, because they happen to be outside of the US.
Relatedly, when the question is "is this person protected by the Constitution," imagine a Venn diagram where one circle is "US citizens" and the other circle is "human being physically present within the United States." Debate over the 100-mile "border zone" notwithstanding, the entire thing is filled in. If you are a US citizen anywhere, or a person inside the US, you have all the Constitutional rights.
In theory, some prosector could have decided to charge Obama with a crime, and maybe even achieved a conviction in a jurisdiction where he's unpopular.
This decision says that shouldn't happen because it was an official act as president.
Of course, if congress doesn't like something a president is doing, they can change the laws and remove his or her legal authority to do something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki