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And you wonder why China is experiencing brain drain. Rest of world is moving toward 4-day work week and these guys think their citizens are dumb enough to slave away their lives.


>Rest of world is moving toward 4-day work week Where, exactly, is this happening?


https://www.4dayweek.com/casestudies

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39457728 ("HN: 4-day week made permanent for 89% UK firms who took part in Worlds biggest trial")

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/14/countries-that-are-embracing... ("4 countries that are embracing—or experimenting with—the 4-day workweek")

https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/companies-around-the-wo... ("Companies around the world adopt four-day work week pilot programs to meet growing demand from Gen-Z and millennial employees")

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/08/1211632901/schools-across-the... ("Schools across the U.S. are trying a 4-day week. Why? To retain teachers") (My note: ~1000 US school districts have moved to a four day week, as they are unable to retain teachers otherwise)

https://www.police1.com/colo-pd-extends-32-hour-work-week-pr... ("Colorado police dept extends 32-hour work week program after successful start")


https://www.abc15.com/news/national/4-day-workweeks-may-be-a... (“Nearly one-third (30%) of large US companies are exploring new work schedule shifts such as four-day or four-and-a-half-day workweeks, according to a KPMG survey of CEOs released this week.”)

https://kpmg.com/us/en/articles/2024/kpmg-2024-ceo-outlook-p...


100% disagree. If you actually look at what is happening in the world.

Firstly all tech companies are doing layoffs, meaning less jobs available -> harder to get jobs -> people are willing to work more/get payed less.

Both US and EU are aggressively pulling in muslim and african immigrants. Again creating pressures to find jobs. This time mainly in blue collar work.

This and cost of living ballooning I don't see how we are going toward 4day anything.

Its the opposite, the employers' position is strengthening and they will be squeezing the employees.


https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/plainville-officia... (“Plainville officially implements 4-day workweek for town employees”)


“Moving towards” was the question.


Are we arguing direction or rate of change in velocity?


In Europe I believe you can request an 80% work week, I've seen job posting and heard it second hand. Here's a Swiss example, https://threema.ch/en/jobs#openings of 80-100% jobs

In North America there were and are a number of companies that operate or operated (pre-layoffs etc, ZIRP free money RIP) on a 4 day work week. You can search "4 day companies" and you'll find a list. Some companies still operate on a 4 day week, so it wasn't necessarily a ZIRP-era only thing.

US congress or someone in government proposed a 32 hour work week -- unlikely to be passed of course or get any traction any time soon.

But in general, there's growing mainstream sentiment towards trying and exploring shorter work weeks.

If AI/AI-enabled-capitalists doesn't enslave us, those grandiose promised AI productivity gains may push sentiment further in that direction.

So "moving towards" is a fair description.


If anything - the US and, the majority of the world with it - has moved to longer work hours with fewer holidays. Sabbaticals are virtually unheard of anymore. Two people in the family work instead of one. I would argue the world is moving in the opposite direction.


It's an East Asian cultural thing to work super hard for some reason, same with Japan, Korea, and Taiwan. By "Rest of the world" you really just mean a handful of Western European nations with stagnant economies, but by god I do wish I could work less.


We've had 45 years of GDP increase not being reflected in wages, who cares if the economy is "stagnant" if the people making it happen aren't seeing the benefit.


"See your boss ferrari? If you work really had he will buy himself a second one"


>By "Rest of the world" you really just mean a handful of Western European nations with stagnant economies

Eastern Europe, the Middle East, South-East Asia, South/Central America and Africa all work much shorter hours than East Asian nations.


Also, at least South America is (very slowly) moving toward 4 days work weeks too.


Well, I can mostly speak to Japan, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was also true in China.

The long hours of Japanese work culture are true, but simultaneously, there's a lot of wasted time. Japan evens praises sleeping at the office, when you're clearly getting no work done.

This might be limited to white-collar office workers; no idea about people on the factory floor.


I don’t think people in East Asia work harder at all. It’s mostly sitting around and taking two hour lunches. I regularly worked 80-100 hours for most of my 20s and early 30s. It’s not sustainable at all and 95% of the population do not even have the physical and mental stamina to do it for more than a couple of weeks out of the year. Out of all the places I’ve experienced, East Coast (and particularly NYC) has the hardest working culture. It’s not even close.


The rest of the world will look to use 4 day work week as a way to put downward pressure on salaries.

China hasn't really needed to put too much downward pressure on salaries.


Can you please elaborate on "downward pressure". Because the way I see it, 4day work week should actually increase the salaries, not reduce it. The way I see - if there is work for 3200 hrs. - it could either be done by one person in 80 weeks (current setup), OR 100 weeks in new setup. Assuming next that velocity should remain the same to keep competitiveness, it's gonna require you to hire not 0.25, but probably 0.5 person for one day free. Hence demand increase for employees. No?


Businesses will seek to pay less for less days worked whilst still expecting the same throughput.

If they are not getting the same throughput why would they support this change?


Until you realize more and more of your stuff are not just Chinese made, but Chinese branded, by those 996 manufacturers.


I am not sure how this pertains to my comment


Unions and labor regulations are important components of arriving at the desired outcome. You have to keep pulling the policy ratchets to reduce the work week and bolster worker protections, otherwise capitalism will extract until there is nothing left.


Good thing that so many white collar jobs are unionized then /s




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