> One of the objections that many people do not understand, is that systemd adds complexity. Unnecessary complexity. Boats full, loads full, mountains full of complexity.
this is and always has been such a dumb take.
if you'd like to implement an init (and friends) system that doesn't have "unnecessary complexity" and still provides all the functionality that people currently want, then go and do so and show us? otherwise it's just whinging about things not being like the terrible old days of init being a mass of buggy and racey shell scripts.
There were plenty of those that existed even before systemd. Systemd's adoption was not a result of providing the functionality that people want but rather was a result of providing functionality that a few important people wanted and promptly took hard dependencies on.
> about things not being like the terrible old days of init being a mass of buggy and racey shell scripts.
Zero of the major distros used System V init by default. Probably only distros like Slackware or Linux From Scratch even suggested it.
It's unfortunate that so many folks uncritically swallowed the Systemd Cabal's claims about how they were the first to do this, that, or the other.
(It's also darkly amusing to note that every service that has nontrivial pre-start or post-start configuration and/or verification requirements ends up using systemd to run at least one shell script... which is what would have often been inlined into their init script in other init systems.)
> Zero of the major distros used System V init by default. Probably only distros like Slackware or Linux From Scratch even suggested it.
I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to claim.
Are you suggesting that Debian's "sysvinit" package wasn't a System V init system? That the years I spent editing shell scripts in /etc/init.d/ wasn't System V init?
or are you making some pointless distinction about it not actually being pre-lawsuit AT&T files so it doesn't count or something?
or did you not use Linux before 2010?
if you have some important point to make, please make it more clearly.
> It's unfortunate that so many folks uncritically swallowed the Systemd Cabal's claims about how they were the first to do this, that, or the other.
I feel like you have very strong emotions about init systems that have nothing to do with the comment you're replying to.
I've been using Linux regularly since 2002. I've never regularly used a Linux that used sysvinit.
In other words, over the past ~22 years (goddamn, where did the time go?) every Linux I've regularly used has had an init system that allows you to specify service dependencies to determine their start order.
> ...Debian...
Ah. That explains it. Debian's fine to build on top of but a bad distro to actually use. (Unless you really like using five-to-ten (and in some cases 25->35) year old software that's been superseded by much-improved versions.)
You should also consider that packages named "sysvinit" sometimes aren't actually what people think of when they hear "sysvinit": <https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Sysvinit>
this is and always has been such a dumb take.
if you'd like to implement an init (and friends) system that doesn't have "unnecessary complexity" and still provides all the functionality that people currently want, then go and do so and show us? otherwise it's just whinging about things not being like the terrible old days of init being a mass of buggy and racey shell scripts.