I will point blank refuse to return to office until there is thorough ventilation and individual offices. I’m not interested in catching a disease that can cause long term heart damage, immune deficiency, and more.

As for what would make me want to, pretty much nothing. I’m an introvert and sensitive to noise and activity around me. I concentrate better and am far less stressed WFH.

And my home office is sunnier, greener, and altogether more pleasant than any office I’ve ever worked in. Plus not spending time commuting. (A walking commute is actually pleasant and good for health, but extremely rare.)

With safety measures in place, an occasional in-office day would be tolerable, but not more than a couple times per month.

Most office HVAC seems to be awful. It’s incredibly rare for a meeting room to have sufficient ventilation. I find it incredible that ventilation is an afterthought or a candidate when it comes to needing save costs.

Worse, hotels have copied offices in not having opening windows which I can only guess is primarily motivated by cost savings.

> I’m not interested in catching a disease that can cause long term heart damage, immune deficiency, and more.

Are you talking about Covid or something else? With this level of risk aversion do you even go outside? You could be bitten by a tick and catch Lyme disease.

Let’s set aside for a moment that you don't get ticks from going outside where I live. You can check your body for them and remove them before they transmit a meaningful bacterial load, and Lyme disease can be treated with antibiotics. It doesn’t spread from human to human. And people take it seriously.

Let’s even set aside that you don’t know what my own health situation is, let alone what people in my life I might be leery of accidentally passing it on to because they’re elderly or immunocompromised.

A friend of mine has been essentially bedridden for the past 2 years with long covid. It keeps getting _worse_, not better. Modern medicine can do nothing for him. And yet people treat this disease like it’s nothing more than a mild head cold, and casually go to parties and offices and send their kids to schools while sick with it, even after testing positive, without taking the slightest precaution to protect others.

No, I’m not exposing myself to that any more than I have to. I’m sorry that you think that’s extreme risk aversion. I’ve done my own assessments of risk and decided it’s not worth it.

To me, it's more the drastic increase in catching a disease. My kids were warded twice last month. First time likely caught COVID from a playground. Second time a common bacteria from a petting zoo. What sucks is being forced to sit in these places for practically half your waking life.

Last job I worked from home with monthly trips down to the London office which was okay.

To go back to the office 4+ times a week I'd be looking for something along the lines of: - 6-hour days without the pay cut - Significant pay rise - A product I'm genuinely passionate about

I just hate the commute and I do not believe anyone who had an inner city or outer to inner city commute who says they miss it. Sure it's fine some days when it's nice, everything is on time and it's not too busy, but most of the time it's grim.

I do think people romanticize what the office was like pre-covid. Only last week I was reminiscing on all the times we would complain about the lack of communication between teams, and that was when they were all sat in the same building.

No admin staff moaning about people leaving a teaspoon in the sink. We earn enough money, just hire a full time cleaner.

Windows that open

People not coming in to the office sick

Making offices plural. Not having one big open plan office

More meeting rooms

Monitors better than mine

Chairs better than mine

Desks bigger and better than mine

AC that doesn’t dry out my throat

Reading this made me chuckle. Those are really basic and sensible demands, but still so rare to find covered in any of the expensive offices.

You won't find that whole list even at FAANG offices. Employers refuse to make their offices superior to WFH so they have to force people in under penalty of job loss instead.

Yup but that doesn’t stop HR gaslighting us about our “amazing world class offices” and how “lucky” we are to have this “benefit” provided to us lol

IT departments seem to have decided that standard low-dpi 1080p monitors are perfectly fine, forever.

It’s all so punitive.

Same with office furniture and facilities.

Australian offices suck in my experience, and it seems it’s a global phenomenon. There are rare exceptions of course.

I was happiest when I had a quiet separate office with AC and temperature control. It was about 15 minutes walk from my home. I would definitely return.

But I don't think I would have ever chance for something similar. Now all offices are open space and housing unaffordable close to offices in my area.

So I will be probably working remotely forever. Which is OK.

The AC thing is a good point. I was always uncomfortably hot in the office, and would have to bring a t-shirt to change into (and sometimes shorts) while everyone else was in hoodies or sweaters. It's hard to compromise on that sort of thing, or noise / interaction levels, group outings, etc. One person's preferences are another's nightmares.

For me, it'd probably require at least a couple of the following things to be true:

1. A significant payrise, perhaps at least twice what I'm making at the moment.

2. A team that I actually get along with well, with a significant amount of shared interests and a passion for technology.

3. The office to be within easy commuting distance, so like 5 minutes from the station I'd get off at.

4. An office environment which feels tailored to developers/engineers, with private offices rather than an open plan layout.

5. Plus the kind of work I'd feel excited to do, involving projects that had a positive effect on the world.

Absolutely +1 for private offices. Have been arguing for this for years now. I am actually surprised and puzzled why engineers did not demand this earlier..???

For me, it would be the salary needed to have an amazing flat or house near the office. So, if you have the office in Toronto or New York it’s okay, but I will want many money (probably you won’t hire me)

If I had to commute to NYC from my home in Jersey, that's a minimum of three hours per day gone.

So I guess, to start, my working day would have to start when I leave the door, and would end when I got home. This means I would be arriving at work sometime around 11am, and leaving sometime around 3pm.

Note that besides the time suck, it's also a non-negotiable requirement since I have to drop off and pick up my child from school/aftercare.

> it's also a non-negotiable requirement since I have to drop off and pick up my child from school/aftercare.

while my commute wouldn't be anywhere near 3 hours (I live in the midwest, SW Ohio), that pretty much the same for me.

I have to drop my kids off no earlier than 8am and pick them up no earlier than 5pm. there is some wiggle room in terms of minutes, but not enough for a place that would want me to be there 8am to 5pm.

An office less than a 15 min commute away - preferably on foot or bike.

I've always designed my life around being able to get everywhere I want by bike or on foot and it's fantastic. I'm 40 and never learned to drive a car. I live in the US in Portland, OR and grew up in very rural Florida.

It's counterintuitive but my housing costs have also been way lower than most people b/c I look for small and inexpensive apartments instead of costlier bigger houses. Plus the cost of bike maintenance and occasional bus tickets are a pittance compared to even the cheapest car.

I also optimize my time for commute to the office. I once worked a job where it would take an hour to get to work, and another hour to get back. After 3 months of that I realized how unproductive the entire ordeal was.

Lucky to have worked at places that have an office near downtown, so I can rent an apartment. I think it works well for me now, but I can see how this might breakdown if I ever start a family.

Not sure why you wouldn't learn how to drive a car. It is an essential skill that every adult should know. It also allows you to travel more, there are beautiful places in America that would be absolutely awful to reach without a car.

> Not sure why you wouldn't learn how to drive a car. It is an essential skill that every adult should know.

I thought it was a suckers game. Learn to drive and get a car to drive to a job to pay for a car. Everybody said it was something you had to do (as you can see, they still do) and I wanted to see if that was true (it’s not) and whether not doing it would make my life worse (I think it’s made my life different but not necessarily worse).

I’ve been to 40+ states and have traveled 10,000+ miles (albeit the same 1,000 miles 10 times) on a tiny sailboat with my dad as a kid. I’ve done enough traveling for my lifetime.

Plus I believe that every place is absolutely awful to reach with a car. I’d rather run the 3 miles to my favorite trail and hike it for the 500th time than travel by plane/car to the Grand Canyon or whatever.

It's all about proximity. I live in the middle of a very walkable city so (assuming I wasn't self employed), then if could physically walk or jog to work every day I would have no issue with RTO... the moment it involves driving of any kind you'd have to triple my salary.

People are different. I WFH but miss the office a lot. Wish I had one to go back to! I'd even take a pay cut for a nice team to work with in person.

But I also wouldn't force people to go to the office if they don't want to be there.

Mee toooo.. that's, just a nice team to work with is enough for me to go back to office.

Of course, a WFH team can also be nice and good (in terms of work..), but then, online meetings don't strengthen the bond between the team members. .. just like mine with Joe. Worked together from 2014-2016 and he is my friend now. Also Marcus, Benji, fabulous Fab, Shireen.. we are more friends then team mates (without actually being real friends). Each one Knows the problems and the yucks and yicks of the other, there is much stronger empathy binding. So, me for my part wouldn't have the same bonding with the company and my teammates, if I would WFH. It's just a job.. why should I stay there? But for my friend mates there, I would take a pay cut or also do a lot more - f.e. helping them with their tasks, because I know person xy is not comfortable with smthg. It doesn't cost me anything to do so.

So that's what I like on being in office and I miss that right now, bc not working there anymore.

As long as I don't get interrupted constantly, I like going to an office if it is conveniently located and has perks.

If I can save time by getting lunch quickly, have snacks and coffee available, and have an onsite gym, I can basically make back the time I commuted and I get a little more 'separation'.

Most of my day is working alone, so occasionally being able to grab lunch with a coworker or someone is nice, and it is very nice not to worry about what snacks and drinks to buy etc.

I realize not every office has these perks, so i'm extra appreciative of when I have it.

2x WFO/week is actually quite comfortable for me. It's nice to meet people and gossip. People travel all the time and bring back exotic snacks. There's not much noise, nobody brings their mech keyboards except the boss.

Office is for socializing, home is for actual work, and the 2x days and open offices reflects that fine.

If it was full 5x WFO, I'd want my own office, like the one my mom used to have. I actually like that old musty office smell, with the air conditioning, books, files, and yellowed out old comics.

Mechanical keyboards should be banned in office.

They're like kids or background music. I like the sound. I find it comforting and it's a productive ambience. But you don't want too many of these in the office at the same time.

I think some people actually use them to assert dominance and such. If so, tell HR, lol.

> 2x WFO/week is actually quite comfortable for me.

Just started a new job a few months ago that was 2x WFO. Worked out fine, didn’t mind.

Of course upper management is now planning for a full RTO. While also worrying about potential retention problems lol.

1. An office within 10-15 minutes of my house, preferably walking or public transportation

2. Housing I can afford within 10-15 minutes of the office

3. Quiet workspace, ideally a private office

4. Good coffee+amenities, or in a part of town with good coffee

5. Actually located with people I work with

I'm a WFH person, that would prefer to RTO. I think the real issue is how difficult going to an office is right now. Nobody can afford to live close enough to make it reasonable.

I work from home. I’m not sure there’s anything that could convince me to go back to an office. All the things you listed have been huge for my family and my life. I get to spend a lot more time with my kid and my wife because I’m not away for 10-12 hours a day.

I guess some insane level of compensation - something that’d convince me I’d be retiring 15-20 years earlier. Even then, I’m not sure I could justify it.

Nothing. Higher salary makes you a bigger layoff target, comes with bigger expectations and with higher taxes.

Time is a valuable thing.

An office max 15 minutes from me. Ok I could do 40min if I can start at 7am and leave at 4.

But I'm working for a nice US based company from my third world country... I'd love to have a few colleagues in my city.

I think I'd take a 20% pay cut to go back to the office for a job I like as much as the one I have now. Assuming 100% of coworkers were also in the office.

If you’re willing to move to a flyover state you could probably reach out to recruiters in the morning and have an offer in hand by lunch. Even the hybrid openings in the midwest/south are bait-and-switch and will be fully onsite soon.

Alternatively there are a lot of positions open at national labs which are onsite, and many work on interesting problems.

Yeah not willing to move to a flyover state lol.

I’m in the PNW (Portland, OR) and not really interested in moving.

I wouldn’t willingly trade working for myself, from my home office.

But you do what you gotta do!

The horror of offices terrifies me though!

I’ve suffered full nervous breakdowns from having to endure the cage of bleak grey offices, the torment of office politics and navigating the petty opinions of small minded colleagues.

I

less annoying coworkers I have to babysit.

Lots of money.

Even the seed stage startups I joined had a bottomless supply of these. Is that not common there?

Well, replace Red Bull with espressos. And the sodas are low sugar now but I think that's because of the sugar tax.

Nothing.

I've worked from home full time since a couple of years before the pandemic, when my company decided to save some money by closing our office, so I've been doing it a while. I have gone to the office a handful of times at my current job, mostly for events (and for a few weeks while I was in between projects).

I only did that because I knew it was a temporary situation though, and even then I didn't go in as many days a week as they wanted, they wanted 4 days per week when in between projects and I only went in 2-3 days a week. Keep in mind I had a ~3 hour round trip commute by bus each day I went in, or I spent at least $20 on parking and drove almost as long.

I'm actually going to a client's office for two days this week, and paying $45 in parking to do so (and will be on the road at around 6am to try to make sure I get there by 8am). But this will be the first time I've been there since last June.

Here's what it would take for me to go into the office more than once in a while:

1. Super close commute, with free parking. 10-15 minutes max.

There was a time when I did 40+ minute commutes five days a week, but I won't do that anymore (unless I absolutely have no other choice).

2. Need to, in writing preferably, allow full flexibility in when I go to the office.

No X days a week mandates (which is looking like the vast majority of companies are doing now). I might have tried to get a full-time job at my current client (and probably would have been hired) if not for their 3 day a week in office mandate.

I'd like to feel free to not go in for a few weeks if I don't feel like it, but come in when I need a break from the house and lack of social interaction.

3. When I do go in the office, not to have an expectation that I'm in there for a solid 8 hours each day, especially if I'm not busy.

That three weeks I went to the office semi-regularly? I was practically spinning in my chair from boredom that last two hours, watching the time crawl ever so slowly to when it was time to leave. I even left a bit early to catch the bus home, so it wasn't even a full 8 hours then. I had stuff I could work on, but I could no longer concentrate on it.

At home I could step away for a bit, pop on a Youtube video to distract my mind for 5-10 minutes, or put switch the laundry, do a few dishes, lift the kettlebell at my desk, let the dogs outside, etc. But there's only so much coffee or restroom breaks I can take, and even those are super boring.

4. If we ever have another proper pandemic again, you better let me be 100% remote.

I'm starting to think some companies wouldn't be willing to do that again next time, that they're tired of the concessions and just want compliance.

If I lived close and you only expected me to show up in the morning and head back home at lunchtime (and go back to work at home), I might even be willing to head in to the office 2-3 days a week on a regular basis, just for the change of scenery and a bit more socialization.

But I'm not seeing workplaces offer that, and most jobs that I'd even be interested in aren't all that close of a commute to me, so I'm a little hesitant to start looking for a new job again.

By the way, if you promise full flexibility in an interview and on the job you say "well actually, we need you to come in X days a week" I will just not show up. You can fire me if you want. I'll probably already be looking for my next job. And/or start figuring out the freelancing thing again, since that's increasingly looking like the only way I'm going to make sure I have the flexibility I want.

BTW, it sickens me that corporations are pushing so hard to have so just about everyone return back to the office when it was shown how well it can work for a lot of people.

From an environmental standpoint alone it's a disaster. Also a much higher number of people have shown that they have a clear preference for it than there are jobs out there that support it nowadays, as evidenced by the swarms of applications that get sent to remote jobs, and much much less to in-person (and the bait-and-switch tactics that recruiters feel they have to use about remote work in order to get people to agree to interviews.