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Ruby is stabilizing, but it's stabilizing in a bad way. It's establishing itself as a language for people who throw tantrums, claim they would never hire a person who does not use a mac, and whose cat-fighting would put cats to shame.

Python, on the other hand, is establishing itself as a serious tool for serious programmers. Python developers don't get calls from crazy teenagers and blog about it.

People like that are swimming in a pond, and they are holding such long discussions about the state of the water in the pond, that they don't notice the rivers, lakes and oceans around them.

I would still not bet any money on Ruby.



It seems a lot more likely to me that it's stabilising as a language whose users are absurdly stereotyped in the manner you've just done.


It's somewhat hard not to stereotype them when the loudest among them behave like ill-behaved 8 year-old children.

I know there is a lot of very serious people using Ruby (and Rails), but the community that builds businesses around the technology needs to deliver a message to the kids: that they should behave or their toys will be taken away.


No, respectfully, it is not hard. You simply have to grow up.


It's somewhat hard not to stereotype them when the loudest among them behave like ill-behaved 8 year-old children.

Tell me what langauge you use so I can irrationally avoid it.


I use Python most of the time I have to program. For the past months, my working tools have been Outlook, Project, Word and Excel, so, my impact on the art of programming is negligible. On occasion, I have been seen coding in C, C++, C#, Java, Forth, Perl, PHP, Dataflex (on Unix), Mantis (on IBM/370s - I miss the 3278 terminals), several different BASIC implementations (back all the way to Apple IIs and Sinclair ZX series), various flavors of SQL and even Bash when the need arises. During my higher education, I used FORTRAN several times. I learned OOP on Smalltalk and made some simple programs in Actor (a ALGOL-ish language very much inspired by Smalltalk).

Feel free to avoid any language you want. The point I was making is that I have no energy to deal with childish behavior of toxic community leaders and their abandoned minions. Life is too short and my to-do list is way too long. :-)

I am not saying I will not use Ruby or Rails - it's a very nice stack. But, most certainly, I will not invest much time contributing to it unless the rest of the community sheds away its more toxic members.


My samples are all based on recent ruby community users blog posts.


It's sad to think that you draw generalizations from the people with the loudest voices.


It might be sad, but I don't blame him. The signal-to-noise ratio for Python related material is higher than for Ruby in my experience.


It's funny that the reputations used to be reversed; that the Python community was insular and unfriendly to newcomers, and the Ruby community was welcoming and helpful.

What you can clearly see between the tenors of the two communities is that there is more surface-level drama in the Ruby community.

What that has to do with anything professional, I have no idea. I read Ruby blog posts and mailing list entries, but I don't write them; I write code (and here) instead.


Python has a community?


Python might not have as many bloggers as a hip language like Ruby, but by community I mean people contributing to open source python projects, writing papers that use python, etc.


Pray that I don't start drawing conclusions about Python users based on your post.


I have not written anything major in Python. DHH and Zed both have.


Oddly enough, Zed Shaw has been a Python programmer for at least the last year or more, which undermines your second paragraph a bit...


I haven't found this to be the case at all. Who besides Zed is behaving this way?




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