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annecdata:

aspirin is pretty good as an anti-inflamitory and hence pain-killer. the reason i don't take it is that it irritates the stomach, and i have enough issues with my insides as it is (irritable-bowel syndrome - not fun)

i currently use cocodamol (codeine and paracetomol) to control my arthritic pain, but it isn't doing so great. at the end of the day, if you really need pain control, you probably want a pure opioid of some kind. and yes, i do know that codeine is an opioid.



I have a friend who has suffered from something known as juvenile idiopathic arthritis since he was still a teenager, and he doesn't function very well without pretty decent doses of CBD for the past long while I've known him. I recognize legality issues are prohibitive in many parts of the world but if this is an option to you I would suggest trying this or anything else that takes the actual inflammation down instead of dulling the pain. The other thing a friend of mine practicing general medicine who was working in a country where CBD wasn't legal yet used very large doses of carefully sourced curcumin - it's not something you want to eat tons of from the grocery store in many places as apparently there's a ton of contamination in the supply [1] but it's actually really easy to just grow tumeric and make sure you're getting it from a decent source in much of the world

One thing may be about it, much like oregano, is that it might just naturally be a nice absorbent of heavy metals in the soil but the fact that people add stuff like lead or cadmium in there to improve color or weight is just terrifying. We need raman spectroscopes in every phone already.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5415259/


According to Wikipedia [1] there is no proven medical effect to curcumin (the yellow substance from turmeric):

Laboratory and clinical research have not confirmed any medical use for curcumin. It is difficult to study because it is both unstable and poorly bioavailable. It is unlikely to produce useful leads for drug development.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curcumin#Stability


There are no proven medical effects to many medicines that work wonderfully.


That's oxymoronic - if there are no proven medical effects, definitionally they do not work wonderfully.


It's not, proving a medical effect and having a medical effect are orthogonal concepts. The world doesn't wait on medical science to keep turning.

A lot of medical recommendations are based on expert opinion, which means there is no proof of their effectiveness but there is a logical basis based on our current understanding of the human body.

New studies come out every day proving the effect of certain herbs, extracts or therapies for certain pathologies, yet these therapies were known to work long before the studies came out.

Even some synthetic drugs are approved without having been demonstrated to be effective at what they claim, for example osteoporosis drugs still haven't been proven to reduce fractures yet get prescribed every day for that very use.


Except proven has a strict definition here that leaves out other possibilities.

You could find some compound that reliably induces an effect in your own body, but has never been studied by anyone else. By the definition we're using here, that could be something thats working wonderfully but has no "proven" medical effects.

Not saying this is advisable, only that pharma companies and their trials don't dictate reality.


Thanks for posting about the lead in tumeric issue. Never knew this was a thing, but it seems pretty widespread based on that study.


thanks, but no thanks


There's something like a downward spiral into hell that is opiates which starts with low doses like what you're on and escalates into worse and worse bullshit because you're not even trying to treat the underlying inflammation before masking the pain with opiates, and then the movement the pain is trying to prevent you from doing happens anyways and you just end up with more damage.

I'm telling you these alternatives because I know many more people than the ones I just told you about who are just fucking dead now. Opiates are fucked.


Opiod abuse is no joke and they are about as addictive as prescription drugs get, and yet the abuse rate is something like 50% in developed Western countries (Abuse ranging from taking them slightly longer than you're supposed to, to taking more than your prescribed dose all the way to crushing and injecting). There are many millions of people who take opiods and don't get addicted or abuse them in any negatively impactful way.

Your comment is based on a personal bias and in no way based on medical fact. There are many types of pain that only opiods can treat. We absolutely need more options that are as powerful and less addictive.

The mechanism for addiction is well understood, but what we don't understand is why some people can take opiods, even extremely powerful ones and don't become drug fiends.

I am sitting here with two 250ml bottles of Morphine next to my bed, there is nothing stopping me from drinking it all. I know how it makes me feel, I know it eases my depression, removes my pain, clears my mind and calms my anxiety, I have restful sleep when I take it right before bed and yet I have never taken it when I didn't need to, never increased the dose, in fact I often take a lower dose than prescribed and sometimes don't take it as scheduled and subject myself to some of the pain until it reaches a point where I require relief, my goal is not to completely escape all pain, all the time, I like to remind myself that i am in control and that I'm not afraid of the pain and that experiencing 'some' pain is not a bad thing. However, I have seen all the documentaries and dramatisations and accounts of people who do the complete opposite. Perhaps it's because I have taken Ritalin for most of my life and am used to the sensations of cravings, perhaps it's because I don't drink alcohol and don't smoke, I do not have any addictive tendencies whatsoever (unless we're talking about chocolate!), maybe it's genetics, maybe it's socioeconomic, but for sure, for me in any case opioids have vastly and dramatically improved my quality of life and I'm grateful that we have such drugs available. Obviously there is work to be done on education, monitoring and support. I wonder if the opioid crisis is so bad in the US because of the private system and lack of coordinated care between specialists and clinics as well as lax pharmacy monitoring.


"just try weed bro" is the absolute worst most condescending advice you can give to someone suffering from chronic pain who didn't ask for advice.

Do you really, really think someone just "went to opiates" before trying absolutely everything to identify and treat the underlying cause?


CBD is not equal to THC, its not psychoactive at all. So no it is not “just try weed bro” and the fact you are so confident about something you know nothing about is quite shocking to be honest. Also opiates are over prescribed for many things they shouldn’t be, so yes a lot of doctor “just went to opiates” and it is literally ruining lives.

P.S. the only condescending person in this thread is you.


> Do you really, really think someone just "went to opiates" before trying absolutely everything to identify and treat the underlying cause?

Given that doctors regularly prescribe opiates and pretty much never prescribe cannabis that would seem highly plausible.


Depends on the medical system in whoever's country

It's really different depending on where you are

Also I think "weed" and "large doses of CBD" are really different things


believe me, i know all about pain, from experience. cannabis derived products are not going to do anything, and i have no idea what you were going on about with tumeric. the only real actual pain-killers are opioids.


Arthritic pain can be treated by things other than pain killers, such as compounds with anti-inflammatory properties. That'd be the logic for turmeric I assume, in that same vein you have everything containing rosemarinic acid (Spearmint, oregano, rosemary).


You say only but I would say alcohol is decent at pain reduction in a lot of cases.


Ethanol seems to be an anti-inflammatory drug:

https://heart.bmj.com/content/90/4/355


Is that so? You haven't tried cannibis derived products or you would have said "did not do anything.". But ok sell the opioids.


believe me, i have used lots of cannabis products, and i am not selling anything


>>I'm telling you these alternatives because I know many more people than the ones I just told you about who are just fucking dead now. Opiates are fucked.

Please don’t project the irresponsibility of others onto those with self control, especially those with chronic conditions that induce extreme, long lasting, & completely debilitating pain.


They did not ask for health advice from random internet strangers. Trying to bully someone into following medical advice they didn't ask for is not cool.


I revel in how mad my mere suggestions made people here


[flagged]


Oh, I'm the comment police? What does that make you?


Coastguard?


[flagged]


I'm not sure what you're trying to say by "Let that poor soul..."

We aren't in a position to "let" or "not let" this person do anything with their own body and medical treatment. We are random people on the Internet. I get feeling the urge to offer unsolicited advice even though I don't necessarily agree with doing it, but the mindset that one is in any kind of position to "let" this complete stranger do something to themselves seems a little egotistical. Calling them a "poor soul" just reinforces that by adding condescension on top.


> how dare the other guy suggest alternatives

that do not work


So I guess all that research from respected institutions like John Hopkins is just made up? Can you show me a peer reviewed study that would prove otherwise?


I took it to mean "it doesn't work for me". If so, no peer reviewed study is required to back that up.


[flagged]


You get that there are a world of treatment options for chronic pain between "Mainline heroin most days" and "Take lots of CBD", right?


You don't have any idea what you're talking about. Please stay in your lane


That’s not what this site is about. Here every lane is our lane. It’s how we grow.


This site is about spreading false and misleading information under the guise of "just giving helpful advice"?

Thanks but I'll continue to call out dangerous misinformation when I see it. Let's keep "reefer madness, but for pain medicine" at the fringes.


So the gold standard for “dangerous misinformation” is whatever you decide to call “dangerous misinformation”.

Do you have any “Actual Information” to back up your call?

If so, share it.

Asking for silence and defending it with buzzwords like “dangerous misinformation” adds literally zero


[flagged]


Strawman. There’s a whole world between “this thing is harmless and 100% beneficial” and “this thing is dangerous in all situations and will always lead down dark pathways.”


Making a suggestion is “bullying” now?

Get a grip


No, doubling down and trying to insist they take your advice after they said "No thank you" is bullying.


[flagged]


often forcing that person to do something they do not want to do.

Is this supposed to be a rebuttal? Sounds like what I said in slightly different words.


  'list of Types of Arthritis'
Arthritis Types : https://www.cdc.gov/arthritis/basics/types.html

>Arthritis means inflammation or swelling of one or more joints.

It describes more than * 100 conditions *,

that affect the joints, tissues around the joint, and other connective tissues.

Specific symptoms vary depending on the type of arthritis, but usually include joint pain and stiffness.


Kratom might be of use, a friend used it as an alternative to morphine at the last stage of her live. She was much less drowsy. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7309661/


I've had multiple friends developing light opioid addictions from kratom. It's no heroin, but it didn't look easy to get away from it


I feel like this sort of anecdotal advice should be avoided on HN


You might be a poor codeine metaboliser. My mom and I both have this and need about twice the normally prescribed amount to have any workable effect. Always check with a medical professional before assuming you are since if it's the reverse you could easily od yourself due to rapid metabolisation of codeine to morphine.


Doubling your dose of cocodamol is a bad idea for the paracetamol too.


1 in 6 caucasians don't metabolise codeine to any useful form and therefore derive zero benefit from it. Opiates are never a good lifestyle option for chronic pain.


If you haven't seen it:

>consumer451 3 months ago | next [–]

>I was diagnosed with arthritis at a very young age. [...]

>One day I learned about modifying my diet to avoid inflammation. I greatly limited, but did not entirely eliminate, tomatoes and potatoes in my diet.

>[...]

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34163231


unhappily, i was diagnosed with arthritis at quite an old age (60+) after happily eating tomatoes and tatties for all my life. i won't say what i think about advice like this.


There are two kinds of arthritis and the age-related one shouldn't be linked with food.


> tatties for all my life.

Hey, a fellow Scot? ;)

Assuming so, something that might be worth considering is medical cannabis, which has been legal in the UK since 2018 - I mention it, as very few people are aware of this. Both THC oil and dried cannabis flower for vaping are available. I use it for chronic neuropathic and muscular pain, and it works amazingly well.

Alternatively, as some others have mentioned, your body may not process codeine correctly (quite a few people can't), so you may wish to try co-dydramol, a mixture of paracetamol and dihydrocodeine. I personally found dihydrocodeine to work much better than codeine.


not a scot (actually i'm english - shock, horror) but i was married to a scottish girl and lived in edinburgh off and on for about 10 years, and some things have stuck.

i think that i am processing codeine ok, as when i took some of my late mum's pure codeine tablets (she got them for awful menstrual/menopause problems) it sent me off into a warm nice place. but try getting them from your gp these days, if you are a man.


Arthritis and inflammation in general can be caused by many things. For some, it can be the good one eats. Nightshades are a real problem for some people.


Have you found anything that works for you?


There are other, even OTC, painkiller medications that might be worth trying. Diclofenac (Voltaren/Flector etc) or Metamizole (variously banned, prescription-only or OTC seemingly random around the world) for example, and then there some newer non-opioid painkillers maybe worth trying but those are mostly prescription only.


Also meloxicam, a higher potency anti-inflammatory tolerated by the stomach better than other options


thank you, didn't know about that one.




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