I think you are very close to the central point of this debate. Whose value is it to begin with? Current cultural norms point to 100% of the value belonging to shareholders and them deciding how much of that to share with employees and execs in form of salaries, bonuses and stocks. If the employees are not happy with a proposal, then they are happy to go find more generous shareholders.
Yes, if I buy a piece of software for my business for $100, I expect it to save me at least $100, or I shouldn't have bought that software. But I am not a piece of software... While I may employ another person for a set price and expect a reduction in the cost of doing business, or even a return, the fact remains, all that differentiates me from the other person is the luck that I was born in my shoes, not theirs.
A good cultural shift may be to re-align assumptions that personal advantages are due to factors we individually control, and think hard about how we would prefer the other party acted were the tables turned.
An ocean full of yachts is pretty worthless if no one offers them a port.
maybe the tricky part is that hard work and initiative mean different things to different people
for me, it's a bit hyperbolic, but just in case I wake up in someone else's body tomorrow, my hard work and personal initiative will mean that at least whoever got my body has a decent shot at life. hope I landed in someone who felt likewise
a roundabout way of saying "if we all believed that we would wake up in a different body tomorrow, I bet we would all be a lot nicer to each other", but maybe more realistically, I suppose a mutual feeling like that would at least manifest into people being more pleasant overall, even if it is incredibly unlikely that you'll actually physically switch bodies
It isn't stealing. There was an exchange of value, labor for salary, that was agreed upon.
I came across an excellent phrase not but an hour ago (italics mine):
"The political mobilization of envy has led to legal restrictions on productive groups, preferential policies for those unable to compete with them, mass expulsions, confiscations, and mob violence..." [1]
The prevalence of the idea that "shareholders are stealing" seems like an example of "the political mobilization of envy."
[1] Race and Culture: A World View, by Thomas Sowell - (He was talking about the Tamils in Sri Lanka, the Germans in Russia... throughout history, not just current events.)
That seems ahistorical. "Shareholders are stealing" is a modern idiomatic expression of the rightful ownership of surplus value, which is an analysis going back to the 1770s at least.
You can have different perspectives or ideological relationships to this concept, even make an argument for the role envy could play in this expression of it. But there is literally centuries of analysis of this you should catch up on before you try to simplify it so completely.
That's why we need a finely balanced solution. Humanity tried giving workers total control (USSR) and it was a disaster. We also tried giving workers somewhat less control but still more leverage (socialist policies in India until 90's) and that wasn't much success either. For now, various social contracts within a narrow range of what US does and say, what Sweden does, seem to be working well.
In what alternate universe did the USSR gave workers total control? Maybe before Lenin used the German cash to take Russia out of WW1, do you mean during these months?
The gall of calling Stalin a defender of the workers, this is hilarious.
The value “generated” actually belongs to the consumers who are forced to pay (doesn’t matter whether directly or indirectly) exuberant prices to a monopoly.
Which is precisely what Google is.
There were many other search engines at one point. Consumers en masse decided to favor Google. Same for email or map or browser providers. Google just has better products from the lens of an average Joe.
Same with smartphones - plethora of choice and yet people are willing to pay through their noses to get iPhones.
I think you are very close to the central point of this debate. Whose value is it to begin with? Current cultural norms point to 100% of the value belonging to shareholders and them deciding how much of that to share with employees and execs in form of salaries, bonuses and stocks. If the employees are not happy with a proposal, then they are happy to go find more generous shareholders.
In that light, I don't think it is stealing.