oh and the last time I wrote in C++, I was using gmake.. all those compiler and linker switches.. header and linker search paths.. ugh.. I felt like I was launching a rocket to the moon just getting some of that to build. don't miss that.. chasing down memory corruption in threads with gdb.. also painful. I get that C++ is much better now, but I haven't really used it in a long time so can't comment.