Some years ago I did some searching on scholar.google.com about bacterial vaginosis.
While douching is generally discouraged as non-helpful at best or counter-productive at worst, I remember reading a study that found washing the vagina with iodine mostly eliminates all bacteria - desirable and undesirable - but that the beneficial lacto-bacteria are the first to repopulate the cavity.
Quotes and links to two studies about this approach are below.
I recall that when I was looking into the matter, I noticed that Walmart's store brand of iodine wash has that chemical in spermicide that some women are sensitive to. The adjacent bottle of brand-name iodine (Betadine?) doesn't have that chemical. Searching now, it must've been Nonoxynol-9 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonoxynol-9 / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Povidone-iodine
I'll look at my pictures... (EDIT: maybe it's been reformulated: "Active Ingredient: Povidone-iodine, 10%; Inactive ingredients: C12-13, PARETH-9, citric acid, disodium phosphate, glycerin, sodium hydroxide, water" - https://www.walmart.com/ip/Equate-First-Aid-Antiseptic-8-fl-...
Betadine without Nonoxynol-9: Active Ingredients: Povidone-Iodine (10%) (1% Available Iodine). Purpose: First Aid Antiseptic. Inactive Ingredients: Pareth 25-8, Purified Water, Sodium Hydroxide. - https://www.walmart.com/ip/Betadine-Solution-8-fl-oz/1732500... /EDIT)
tl/dr: use iodine to wipe out all bacteria, so the lactic-acid producing bacteria can repopulate the area.
Two studies that seem to support using iodine washes to take out all the bacteria:
" [...] Contrary to that the lactobacilli counts from patients treated with povidone iodine suppositories decreased after the first week but increased in the second one. Potentially pathogenic germs, e.g. Gardnerella, Bacteroides and Enterobacteria were reduced in a higher extent and with a longer lasting effect after treatment with povidone iodine suppositories than with capsules containing lactobacilli. The results of this study show that native lactobacilli rapidly re-colonize after the antiseptic treatment with povidone iodine. Therefore, there is no need to use lactobacilli in addition." - Efficacy of Povidone-Iodine Vaginal Suppositories in the Treatment of Bacterial Vaginosis - https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/57731
"Repeated vaginal washings with 3% H2O2, 15% NaCl and 10% providone iodine were initiated. At the end of each washing, vaginal walls were thoroughly cleaned up with a small gauze. After 10 days of treatment the odor and the vaginal discharge had ceased and 12 months later no relapse had occurred" - Recurrent Bacterial Vaginosis in a Virgin Adolescent: A New Method of Treatment - https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s15010-002-2001-9
Was this something you actually did and had success with? If so, did you have chronic BV or just acute BV?
Things we’ve tried:
- boric acid suppositories (this helps but the BV always comes back)
- hydrogen peroxide douche (no results)
- a couple essential oil mixtures (no results)
- antibiotics (BV comes back)
Through research it seems the problem may be biofilms. You kill all the bacteria except those hiding in the biofilms and so they just repopulate.
A cursory google shows iodine may bust biofilms, so this May be worth a try.
I’d gotten my partner’s microbes... After some searching I decided it was the male equivalent of BV. I’ve used various kinds of iodine on myself successfully, but I don’t have a vagina to experiment on. I’d like to experiment on my current partner, but she’s not interested in the experiment, and her condition is very minor in comparison to the partner who motivated my searches.
Another factor to look at is the person’s body temperature. People who are a few degrees below normal supposedly have different intestinal bacteria than people who have a normal body temperature.
There are unique carbohydrates in medicinal mushrooms (uhm... “polysaccharides, glycoproteins and proteoglycans“) and cranberries (D-Mannose) that might be useful to you too...
There are some probiotic blends that focus on lactobacillus that some have found helpful. These can be used externally or internally. See papers like https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1198743X1... and https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24299970 for instance. If interested in this, check out the particular types of lactobacillus mentioned in these articles and make sure the product you're purchasing has those, rather than a general lacto blend. It appears that antibiotics should be a short course and probiotics a long course: killing is fast, growing is slower.
The science isn't conclusive but there are ~ zero negative side effects, so it's a good expected value.
Yeah I’d neglected to mention that we’d tried some of that as well... but the only available probiotics matching the “correct” lactobacilli strains were in Europe... so we tried a few weeks of them but between their cost and not being certain they’d even survive the long journey to California we didn’t get many doses and as mentioned weren’t confident they’d be active on arrival.
I'm a bit late to this thread but have you looked into RepHresh Gel?[1] It's a vaginal suppository that supposedly encourages lactobacillus growth. It's approved in the EU for the treatment of BV[2] but sold in the US for "odor elimination." It's definitely a bit pricey - $16 for about a week's worth on Amazon and from what I understand the EU guidelines suggest using it somewhat long-term to treat BV (something like 12 IIRC) so it's far from a quick fix.
I grow medicinal herbs. I have found that with Ayurveda there are herbal washes that help with restoring vaginal pH towards slight acidity.
I don’t grow them as I am not in the right zone, but I have read that there are many herbs that does this function. Plus..Ayurveda takes a whole systems approach and includes dietary changes and lifestyle tips. Most of it was targeted towards menopausal and perimenopausal women who go through the changes and will affect whole body pH. The kind of herbs depends on the individual’s constitution.
I am pretty sure TCM has similar protocols for women’s health but the names were not familiar to me and I didn’t feel confident enough to enquire in a language that I wasn’t fluent in..
Do you know where in the timeline of human history did ‘science’ appear?
Is boric acid protocol for BV transplanted vaginal microbiome be considered ‘science’?
(Nice. The downvoting begins. And I haven’t even started. What’s the point? You guys please continue to enjoy talking amongst yourselves about scientific ways to deal with vaginal pH.)
Please note that I'm not saying that Ayurveda or TMC doesn't contain things that work. I'm just saying that a lot of those things haven't seen any proper testing done, so we don't know whether they work better than a placebo, or even whether they are safe, and of the things we did test, few worked particularly well.
good researching. thanks for sharing . it's cool that the good ones are the first to establish in the fresh neighborhood. i think this should be common knowledge, and i think you've just helped that become a reality.
While douching is generally discouraged as non-helpful at best or counter-productive at worst, I remember reading a study that found washing the vagina with iodine mostly eliminates all bacteria - desirable and undesirable - but that the beneficial lacto-bacteria are the first to repopulate the cavity.
Quotes and links to two studies about this approach are below.
I recall that when I was looking into the matter, I noticed that Walmart's store brand of iodine wash has that chemical in spermicide that some women are sensitive to. The adjacent bottle of brand-name iodine (Betadine?) doesn't have that chemical. Searching now, it must've been Nonoxynol-9 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonoxynol-9 / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Povidone-iodine
I'll look at my pictures... (EDIT: maybe it's been reformulated: "Active Ingredient: Povidone-iodine, 10%; Inactive ingredients: C12-13, PARETH-9, citric acid, disodium phosphate, glycerin, sodium hydroxide, water" - https://www.walmart.com/ip/Equate-First-Aid-Antiseptic-8-fl-...
This one has Nonoxynol-9: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Betadine-skin-cleanser/46068801
Betadine without Nonoxynol-9: Active Ingredients: Povidone-Iodine (10%) (1% Available Iodine). Purpose: First Aid Antiseptic. Inactive Ingredients: Pareth 25-8, Purified Water, Sodium Hydroxide. - https://www.walmart.com/ip/Betadine-Solution-8-fl-oz/1732500... /EDIT)
tl/dr: use iodine to wipe out all bacteria, so the lactic-acid producing bacteria can repopulate the area.
Two studies that seem to support using iodine washes to take out all the bacteria:
" [...] Contrary to that the lactobacilli counts from patients treated with povidone iodine suppositories decreased after the first week but increased in the second one. Potentially pathogenic germs, e.g. Gardnerella, Bacteroides and Enterobacteria were reduced in a higher extent and with a longer lasting effect after treatment with povidone iodine suppositories than with capsules containing lactobacilli. The results of this study show that native lactobacilli rapidly re-colonize after the antiseptic treatment with povidone iodine. Therefore, there is no need to use lactobacilli in addition." - Efficacy of Povidone-Iodine Vaginal Suppositories in the Treatment of Bacterial Vaginosis - https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/57731
"Repeated vaginal washings with 3% H2O2, 15% NaCl and 10% providone iodine were initiated. At the end of each washing, vaginal walls were thoroughly cleaned up with a small gauze. After 10 days of treatment the odor and the vaginal discharge had ceased and 12 months later no relapse had occurred" - Recurrent Bacterial Vaginosis in a Virgin Adolescent: A New Method of Treatment - https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s15010-002-2001-9