"McCain graduated from the United States Naval Academy in 1958 and followed his father and grandfather—both four-star admirals—into the U.S. Navy. He became a naval aviator and flew ground-attack aircraft from aircraft carriers. During the Vietnam War, he was almost killed in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire. While McCain was on a bombing mission over Hanoi in October 1967, he was shot down, seriously injured, and captured by the North Vietnamese. He was a prisoner of war until 1973. McCain experienced episodes of torture and refused an out-of-sequence early repatriation offer. The wounds that he sustained during war have left him with lifelong physical disabilities. He retired from the Navy as a captain in 1981 and moved to Arizona, where he entered politics. In 1982, McCain was elected to the United States House of Representatives, where he served two terms. He entered the U.S. Senate in 1987 and easily won reelection five times, most recently in 2016. "
> McCain experienced episodes of torture and refused an out-of-sequence early repatriation offer
I'm not sure I can imagine how difficult that would be in practice, though it's nice to think you could do it in theory.
I'm dealing with some family members not doing the right thing recently by not respecting the final wishes of their own mother. With that on my mind, it makes for such a stark contrast.
I feel bad about playing video games sometimes and have to remind myself of the photograph called Hubble Deep Field. Look it up if you haven’t seen it before.
Do what you want to and don’t stop yourself from enjoying it by comparing your life to some famous person or some blogger. It’s easy to feel bad when you read a biography of Augustus....why aim low and settle for comparing to McCain?
If you want to attempt great things, go for it, but don’t start thinking a comfortable and peaceful life (which is the only thing so many people throughout history yearned for and were denied) is “not enough.”
I don't think the parent was implying that everyone could or should live a life like McCain, or that anything else is "not enough", only that this is a remarkable person who led a remarkable existence on earth. He touched the lives more people and affected more change than most of us could ever dream of, and that's something to admire.
Further, not everyone is fighting the same fight. I have the ability for more education than I have, but I also face about 31 migraines out of 31 days without constant medical intervention. I won’t make a dent similar to John McCains, but I have fought my own pains.
Thank the universe for McCains contributions. I didn’t agree with his politics much of the time, and I’ll miss his approach to his fellow humans and politics.
On the plus side, I'm guessing your CRUD app hasn't killed, maimed or otherwise destroyed buildings and lives for several years. (If nothing else because you just finished it)
I once described John McCain as an unprincipled torture apologist for his political positions during the Bush administration. I think I was probably mistaken, and I apologize to his ghost.
"As a torture victim, Mr. McCain was sensitive to the detention and interrogation of detainees in the fight against terrorism. In 2005 the Senate passed his bill to bar inhumane treatment of prisoners, including those at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, by limiting military practices to those permitted by the United States Army Field Manual on Interrogation. His 2008 bill to ban waterboarding as torture was adopted, but vetoed by President Bush."
Anyone can fight in a war or even be a senator. Very few people have the capability to develop software. You should be proud of your accomplishments. Building software is a much bigger accomplishment than winning a popularity contest or killing people because others order you to.
Very few people would be capable of enduring torture across nearly six years, while letting numerous other prisoners go free in their stead.
McCain signed up to the military willingly. He comes from a family line of professional soldiers. Who knows how many of those others he put before himself were forcibly drafted into it, plausibly many of them (late 1967 was near peak US troop levels, a lot of soldiers taken POW at that time forward would have been drafted; in 1968 300k were drafted, 1.7m total across the war (38% of which served in Vietnam)).
Personally I'd never agree with the US involvement in the Vietnam civil war. McCain is a hero for his actions in captivity, not for his war fighting.
If he was drafted, you might have a point. Yet he willingly joined a war that even back then everyone knew was unjust and pointless. I don't see how that makes anyone a hero, no matter what they do in said war. People in this country sure have a really fucked up conception of what a "hero" is.
I am glad in hindsight your understanding of the situation was so clear. I promise you at the time things where not a black and white. Also he joined the military as a graduate of the Navy Academy way before the war in Vietnam was a real thing. He was a brave, honorable man deserving of our respect. It is easy to sit back after the fact and make grand judgments.
“John McCain and I were members of different generations, came from completely different backgrounds, and competed at the highest level of politics. But we shared, for all our differences, a fidelity to something higher – the ideals for which generations of Americans and immigrants alike have fought, marched, and sacrificed. We saw our political battles, even, as a privilege, something noble, an opportunity to serve as stewards of those high ideals at home, and to advance them around the world. We saw this country as a place where anything is possible – and citizenship as our patriotic obligation to ensure it forever remains that way.
Few of us have been tested the way John once was, or required to show the kind of courage that he did. But all of us can aspire to the courage to put the greater good above our own. At John’s best, he showed us what that means. And for that, we are all in his debt. Michelle and I send our most heartfelt condolences to Cindy and their family.”
There's nothing respectable or heroic about any war. The longer we keep pushing this narrative about soldiers being heroes, the longer we get stuck in this mentality that it's somehow justified or reasonable to start wars, of which we have started so many it's almost impossible to count at this point. Despite his experiences in war and being tortured in Vietnam, he still supported torture and other hideous practices. If that's the kind of man you want to respect and call a hero, go ahead, but don't ask the rest of us to respect someone like that simply because he was a POW. I'm not sure what your definition of hero is, but mine is about as opposite of McCain as one can get.
Any man or woman that signs up to give up their life for their country is a hero. Period. Soldiers don’t start wars. Soldiers, however, many a times, do give ultimate sacrifices in them.
He voted for the Military Commissions Act of 2006 and against the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008. At best his record on torture is mixed and clearly despite all his talk against torture and even his sponsoring of one anti torture amendment (McCain Detainee Amendment to the Defense Appropriations bill for 2005) he still supported it later in his career. Those are facts. You haven't provided a single fact in your response, just an insult that alludes to unknown alleged "facts."
McCain was a war hawk who voted for both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars amongst others and constantly supported overthrowing other governments by force. To support a war like Iraq was unconscionable. Everyone knew the allegations that led to to it were bullshit without having any access to classified information. It seems the idea of a hero here in America is one who goes and sends others to die in war for no reason, without thought, without any consideration for the massive loss of human life that entails. These aren't wars of self defense like WWII, to address your question above, they are wars of aggression, hate, cruelty, and racism. Yeah that sure makes a real hero, killing and sending others to kill for a hateful, cruel agenda.
"There's nothing respectable or heroic about any war." -mnm1
Yet, you are okay with WII? Which is it? Are the those that fought in a war you agree with not Heroic?
As to the 2nd Iraq war - A large number of good people were mislead by President G.W.Bush. There is no proof that Senator McCain had any knowledge beyond the reset of the members of the Senate. Furthermore I would argue that having fought in a war, having been tortured for 5 years, he more then others would have a very clear understand the consequences and cost of his vote.
All of you arguments deal in absolutes in a world that has way to many shades of grey. Ideally I agree with you - all war is wrong. Unfortunately not everyone in the world shares your view, and there are still bad people. Senator McCain was far from perfect, but is he quite distance from the monster you make him out to be.
There's nothing respectable or heroic about WWII either. I did not imply that there was. It was, for the US, a war of self defense and that's the only justification I can accept for war. It doesn't make heroes out of the people that fought it either, however. It was just as dark and horrible an event for the allies as it was for the axis. Both sides were dragged down into the ugliest pit of human existence possible. Unfortunately, it only takes one side to drag every other side down into such a dark abyss and turn men into savages. It's horrible that this ever happens; it's even more horrible when it's your own country dragging down everyone else into this dark abyss by starting wars. The worst is when men like McCain lead us into this abyss without logic or reason. Why were we in Iraq when it was Saudis trained in Afghanistan that attacked us? Just because they are Arabs with darker skin and a different religion. That's not much different than the insane reasons Hitler had for starting his war. It's despicable and unforgivable in both cases.
The fact that you see the brave men that ran out of the landing craft on Normandy into a hail of machine gun fire as unheroic just...sorry, we have nothing more to talk about.
In 1969, as John McCain was strapped into his fueled and armed aircraft, a missile accidentally fired from an aircraft across the carrier. The missile ruptured his aircraft's fuel tank, and wrecked the aircraft next to his. Both aircraft, and all the spilled fuel caught on fire. Both aircraft's bombs, old and with decomposing explosives, began to explode in the fire much sooner than the should have. McCain escaped injured. The pilot next to him was killed by the bombs, as was most of the carrier's fire team.
In all, 134 men on the carrier died from the fires and explosions that day.
This story is not supported by the article you posted.
Per the article:
> At about 10:51 (local time) on 29 July, an electrical power surge in the Phantom occurred during the switch from external to internal power. The electrical surge caused one of the four 5-inch Mk-32 Zuni unguided rockets in a pod on external stores station 2 (port inboard station) to fire.
What's interesting is that if you dig into the sources cited, they explicitly call out bullshit like yours:
> In recent years, articles have appeared on the internet that are extremely inaccurate and generally intend to unfairly tarnish the reputation of Senator John S. McCain III, who survived the fire.
At 1050, Forrestal commenced early launch of two KA-3B tankers, an EA-1, and an E-2A in preparation for an 1100 launch of a 24-plane Alpha Strike, the second of the day. At that time, a VF-11 F-4B (No. 110,) was spotted on the extreme starboard quarter of the flight deck. As the pilot of F-4B 110 shifted from external to internal power, multiple electrical malfunctions ignited one of the four 5-inch Mk-32 Zuni unguided rockets in a pod on external stores station 2 (port inboard station), which fired across the flight deck and struck VF-46 A-4E No. 405, piloted by LCDR Fred White, rupturing its fuel tank, igniting the fuel, and initiating the fire. Although the board of investigation reached the opinion that the Zuni rocket hit 405, there is some ambiguity in eyewitness accounts as to whether the rocket hit 405 or the plane next to it, 416, piloted by Lieutenant Commander John McCain. The rocket itself actually impacted the ocean beyond both aircraft. Regardless, shrapnel ripped into both aircraft, and both were immediately sprayed by fuel; a pool of fuel ignited between and under the two aircraft. Both pilots initially escaped from the flames around their aircraft.
Maybe the original post was edited, but I don't see a difference between your "what actually happened" and what was in the post you are referring to: A missile was fired from a third plane, wrecked the plane next to McCains (White,No 405), and damaged his plane seriously. Fuel spilled and ignited. Bombs exploded. White died by that explosion.
I also don't see how that tarnishes McCain?
That seems to be exactly the same story I'm describing. An unguided missile was fired from a different aircraft across the carrier and set both McCain's aircraft and the aircraft adjacent to his on fire. The missile was not fired by McCain's aircraft.
Not the person you replied to, but I think the issue they took was with the phrasing ‘accidentally fired’, which could be (mis)read to imply user error instead of malfunction. I know I read your post in the former sense until I saw this one and read the original more carefully
Well, I just finished a cool CRUD app.