Very few ISPs can track you no matter where you physically go, as your mobile, home, and work ISPs are likely all different. And ISPs are regional, none carry the level of threat of Facebook or Google.
Of course, when states tried to reintroduce privacy protections... That covered ISPs and tech companies alike... Big tech stepped in and opposed. They weren't interested in protecting users, they just didn't want the competition.
> Very few ISPs can track you no matter where you physically go, as your mobile, home, and work ISPs are likely all different.
There's a lot of consolidation happening in that space. Verizon offers FiOS and phone service. Comcast is getting into the mobile game. That aside, any device by itself is enough to get a picture of the user using only tracing IP addresses (i.e. DNS lookups and outbound requests). They don't need to stitch together your mobile and home connections. It's enough to have two profiles on you when you're using each one.
Google also has Fiber and Fi, but in reality, I think the likelihood any given user has land and mobile access through the same company is relatively low, and you usually have the option to switch at least one of them.
AT&T is probably the biggest player in succeeding at being the ISP for you everywhere though.
I doubt it's _that_ uncommon in the UK -- most of the mobile providers offer home broadband services, often at a discount for mobile subscribers. Struggling to find specific/up-to-date numbers, but e.g. Vodafone have >300,000 home broadband customers (which is not an insignificant amount) and EE have around 900,000. I'd imagine a fair percentage of those are also mobile subscribers.
> Very few ISPs can track you no matter where you physically go, as your mobile, home, and work ISPs are likely all different. And ISPs are regional, none carry the level of threat of Facebook or Google.
True, all tracking/privacy issues are bad but you can still route around Google/Facebook with simple things even such as hosts file loopbacks, browser extensions, using Firefox instead of Chrome and using different search/social networks.
Google and Facebook are blockable, ISPs can never be blocked.
Even with a VPN you are still going through an ISP gateway with that encrypted traffic and performing DNS lookups. This will lead to throttled bandwidth, can Google and Facebook throttle you down? Facebook/Google/etc have zero control over you if you want, ISPs always got your information.
ISPs can also track entire companies now, Facebook and Google do it by individual but ISPs capture everything, you always have to connect to an ISP.
The privacy overreach by ISPs is immense due to not being able to choose to be tracked, and they are lower on the service level as they are the base entry to the web.
ISPs are your entry/gateway to the internet and now track you and can sell your data, Facebook/Google ride on top of that. ISPs could also crush others tracking, replace ads in place of other networks which was in the bill, and will squash any small/medium advertising networks outright.
ISP tracking and privacy overreaches are definitely the biggest encroachment on internet freedom ever and much more of a problem than destination/apps built on it that you have to go to or can route around.
ISPs also bought/bribed their way into this monopoly reach, they did not earn it with providing products people desire, they have local monopolies with false competition that lessen the ability of people to change providers.
I think you'd be surprised how much more similar Google is to these things. They absolutely bought and bribes their way into their monopoly reach, by paying to be the default on everyone's browsers, having other software bake Google Toolbar into their install wizards (later replaced by Chrome), etc.
Also, given the HTTPS Everywhere push (mostly led by Google), usually only sites like Google and Facebook get to see your traffic, ISPs get cut out of most of the deal.
And for most people, Google or Facebook is, in fact, their gateway to the Internet: They get everywhere they go through one of these two captive environments.
Finally, telecoms are already subject to significant regulation, even with the recently repealed privacy rule, no, ISPs can't just go selling your search history, marketing by certain political groups to the contrary. (Whereas Google and Facebook both, effectively, can.) Meanwhile, tech companies have operated with little to no regulation at all, and unlike telecoms, which have a whole federal agency dedicated to regulating them, tech companies' reach isn't restrained by much outside of the FTC, which isn't even fully staffed, and definitely isn't doing their jobs.
Any big company has to lobby a bit but the ISPs only do that and do have local monopolies with false competition so you can't really choose another competitor in many places. ISPs haven't built any market products people want to use that they will willingly give up their data for.
Google and Facebook are ad networks that tracking is inherent because they are free and they make their money from ads.
ISPs are for internet access and privacy, you pay them so they don't sell your data. Now they want to be Google/Facebook without building a search engine or social network. They bought their monopoly with bribes so they could become ad networks/tracking networks. People have the expectation that their data isn't being sold by their ISP currently, but they are and it is fully legal now.
Google and Facebook aside, do you want your ISP tracking you and selling your private data?
Google and ISPs both have monopolies, but ISPs have local monopolies and Google has global monopolies. In 2017, Google wasn't just "a" lobbyist, they were "the biggest" lobbyist, dwarfing any ISP's.
When you say "Google and Facebook aside", it feels like you are literally missing the entire point... You have an elephant in your sinking boat, and you're worried about the weight of the dog.
We know that the companies are big and possibly seen as monopolies, the question was still unanswered though.
Do you want your ISP tracking you and selling your private data? Do you think that is the place of an ISP?
If you do like your ISP tracking and selling your private data, we'll have to agree to disagree. I think there is no place for ISPs to be evading privacy and selling your data. It isn't about competition.
I expect tracking from free services I am not paying for that my data is the product. I expect tracking from companies that make their money from ad/marketing to do that.
I do not expect tracking and privacy invasions from my ISP, my front door to the internet.
My ISP is also not a small dog, it is a massive media company and a monopoly in addition to my provider. At least with Google/Facebook you can use DuckDuckGo/bing/etc or other social networks and block Google/Facebook if desired.
I can't route around my ISP, there is no local competition and what competition there is amounts to false competition. From the FCCs own data, most people only have 1 or maybe 2 real competitive ISPs in their area and virtually no competition at 100Mbps, zero options for gigabit [1].
I can easily walk around Google and Facebook and block them, my ISP is a big big mean dog because I am paying for my privacy invasion, services that run on the internet are corgis and they are free but fun to play so they attracted people's data by providing something people want. They do both lobby but that is primarily because ISPs and others do so heavily and you must compete at that level or lose.
> FCC report finds almost no broadband competition at 100Mbps speeds [1]
> Even at 25Mbps, 43 percent of the US had zero ISPs or just one. [1]
It's funny that you link Jon Brodkin, because I was going to point out all of what gave you this erroneous impression was from a select handful of media properties which have incredibly close ties with Google...
You ignored that Google and Facebook are also the front door to the Internet, and that you cannot evade their privacy violations by just "not using them". You've also continued to not address that Google is a much larger monopoly than any company you're upset about. Adding all of the ISPs together would not even approach the scale of threat provided by Google, in money or reach.
You've seemed to decide that violating your privacy and security is okay for some companies and not others without really a reasonable distinction how. Especially given that Google and Facebook are both media companies (and ISPs), and so are Comcast and Verizon.
- Do you want your ISP tracking you and selling your private data? Do you think that is the place of an ISP?
- Does it bother you you are PAYING your ISP and they are reselling your data as well?
- Do you trust Comcast and Verizon and like that you are paying them to sell your data when you just want to use them to get online and are ok with this?
It is funny you keep evading those important questions and flipping back to Facebook/Google. Just want to get you on record on the ISP question. I have already stated all are powerful and there is an expectation of tracking from advertising companies like Google/Facebook, that was not possible until the ISP privacy bill that removed privacy protections.
Also that data from broadband numbers is DIRECTLY from the FCC report the FCC created, it is just summarized on ars, does the FCC have a Google bias?[1].
The fact that you supposedly know the guys bias and associate it with Google is probably a hint of bias on your side. Maybe you just like ISPs selling your private data while paying for the service.
> You've seemed to decide that violating your privacy and security is okay for some companies and not others without really a reasonable distinction how.
I believe I explained this clearly multiple times. ISPs are literally the definitely of a 'gateway' or doorway to the internet. Facebook/Google are built on top of it and yes you can route around them or block them easily with host loopback or at firewall/routers etc, there are competitors to those apps, not so much with network gateways/ISPs [1]. Is the EFF also in Google's bias? [2]
You've seemed to decide that violating your privacy and security is okay for ISPs who previously were not able to but lobbied to have those privacy protections removed without answering whether you think that they should.
I don't believe any ISP should have access to your private data nor sell it, especially because you are paying for it. I say the same for Google Fiber and and Facebook ISP overseas if they have them. ISPs SHOULD NOT be accessing private data and selling it, they are the gateway to the internet and that is TOO MUCH POWER. If ISPs want advertising networks or tracking, build a search engine or a social network or like Comcast has in Hulu, or buy one. Only track on a destination site that I can CHOOSE NOT to use that doesn't double as my entry to the web, that has way more monopolistic tendencies in terms of control of your data.
But the ISP does not follow me from device to device, doesn't (for home providers, anyway) correlate me with location info, and generally knows far less about me.
I'd rather Comcast didn't touch my data, but no, in the end I would trust them with it far more than I would trust Google or Facebook.
Of course, when states tried to reintroduce privacy protections... That covered ISPs and tech companies alike... Big tech stepped in and opposed. They weren't interested in protecting users, they just didn't want the competition.