Thanks for the pro-pornography manifesto, but you're falsely assuming I'm against it. Quite the opposite - I'm pro pornography and a fully paid up pro-sex disciple of Dan Savage :-) No-one's ever going to be seriously injured by seeing a few genitals.
I just don't think a NINE year old should be implicitly given free rein to browse hardcore pornography and to have sexual discussions in adult sex chatrooms with strangers. Straight up softcore porn is no enemy, but it's easy to go way beyond that. A 9 year old is emotionally and mentally streets away from a teenager, whether they're hitting puberty or not.
I've tended to think of myself as a mostly liberal guy, but seriously, if people think that letting 9 year olds check out pornography and talk on adult chat rooms is OK (judging by all the upboats you're getting), then today is the day I've finally become sexually conservative - at least compared to some of you(!)
OK, I'll 'fess up here, only because there might be a chance that doing so might actually accomplish something constructive.
I started being sexually curious in the second grade. Not like, "you show me yours, I'll show you mine", but far more serious. By the time I was nine -- this was before there was much of such a thing as an internet -- I had seen hardcore porn videos that I wasn't supposed to, and I had an appetite for many more.
In my family, this sort of behavior was strictly taboo. Nobody talked about it, nobody wanted to be involved. This resulted in my sneaking about and figuring out most of it on my own; it didn't at all slow down my curiosity.
Restrictions? Oh, that was tried. My parents went so far as to install a fire control box over the power strip to the computer. I quickly discovered that I could toggle the switch by slipping a bicycle spoke down the gap in the top. I got very good at this.
I swore to myself, while growing up, that I'd never forget what it was like to be young, and for the most part I've kept that oath. When I was little, I had concluded that all the trouble between kids and adults was the result of adults forgetting what it's like to be a kid. I still, mostly, hold to that.
A 9 year can be smart. They're not likely to use the same judgement as an adult, but that's only because they lack experience, not intelligence. They can think things through, they can reason, they can figure things out. They can be sharper and even more creative than adults.
So when parents think that they're "disciplining" their child by restricting the child's access to something, all they're really doing is, a: indicating to the child that they don't trust them; b: indicating to the child that it's not a matter open to discussion; and c: leaving the child to go elsewhere, unsupervised, to do the same damn thing anyway.
Kids have to be raised on a case-by-case basis. The parents in this article had a tough decision to make in this case: do they create an opportunity for him to explore his sexuality in the relative safety of their home, with their occasional guidance; or do they try to prevent those activities, and in the end only encourage him to sneak off and do it anyway without their observation and guidance?
That's not a false dichotomy, either. Those really are their only options.
I think they made the right decision, not because I'm a parent (I'm not), but because I was a kid.
i don't know. your argument feel intuitive, but itistoday has concrete examples of why the situation was actually positive. that "A 9 year old is emotionally and mentally streets away from a teenager" is an abstract concern to me - what exactly is the problem here? compounded by the fact that things turned out fine for the kid in the story.
People frequently have positive adulthoods after suffering abuse earlier in life. That's mere correlation, not causation, and doesn't mean the abuse is good.
People with pleasant childhoods can turn out bad. People with get beaten every day as kids can turn out good. That's as much not an argument to beat children as yours is to give them free access to adult, sexual situations.
So are you arguing that the porn was unpleasant to him? Because if it wasn't unpleasant to him at the time (like physical abuse would be), nor did it hinder his development, then where is the harm?
It's silly to generalize on the mental capabilities of all 9 year olds.
It's sillier still to apply those generalizations to a "9-year old" with a beard and who made other 9-year olds cry to their mothers saying he made them feel stupid.
I know plenty of examples of 9-year olds who are more mature than many 20 year-olds I know.
Plus, 9 years isn't all that young to be watching or talking about porn. Perhaps just one standard-deviation from the norm (just a guess, based on my personal experience).
I'm also not sure what exactly the alternative to "free rein" is with regards to porn (other than blocking it completely). I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have anyone watch me as I jerk off to porn, much less my parents. I'm sure they would want to be there either (at least I hope so).
BTW, did you know it was only a few centuries ago that 15 year olds were wed and started families?
The great thing about this story though is we know how it ends. The boy who jerked off to hardcore pornography at the age of 9 (or younger) is all grown up and he's not a murderer or a rapist. Instead, he's won recognition for his intellect, and seems to be an all-around OK guy.
It's silly to generalize on the mental capabilities of all 9 year olds. [..] I know of many examples of 9-year olds who are more mature than many 20 year-olds I know.
Sorry, I'm out of my depth. It's beyond my rhetorical capabilities to have a serious discussion about it being OK for even a "mature" 9 year old to be having unrestricted access to cybersex chat rooms and hardcore porn.
That said, I thank you for opening my eyes. I think I understand how many conservative, Christian folks feel when confronted with things like gay marriage. Perhaps they're not evil - they just can't shift their worldview up by 10 orders of liberality. My own sexually liberal views are as alien to them as yours are to me. So sorry, and good luck, but I can't engage with this.
That said, if you allow your own mature 9 year old daughter or so to have laissez-faire, unmonitored sexual relationships and write an article about it, I'd love to read it.
It's a bit disappointing to me that you're able to come to an understanding with the perspective of conservative Christians who want to ban gay marriage, yet aren't able to see my point of view.
That said, if you allow your own mature 9 year old daughter or so to have laissez-faire, unmonitored sexual relationships and write an article about it, I'd love to read it.
I'll be sure to if I ever get that opportunity. What I can say is that my sister does fit that description, and she alright, recently graduated at the top of her class, and has been accepted to an ivy league. No cybersex horror stories to speak of. Perhaps my parents did something right, besides giving her unrestricted internet access.
It's not about the content that's online, it's about the person who's viewing it. If they're intelligent and know what to watch out for, they'll be just fine, and love you the more for letting them masturbate in peace.
You can always find cases that are exceptions to the general rule, where someone does something that ends up being very destructive for the vast majority of people who try it but comes out just fine. Especially on the internet. That in no way justifies or makes safe such behavior for the rest of the us.
> That said, if you allow your own mature 9 year old daughter or so to have laissez-faire, unmonitored sexual relationships [..]
What I can say is that my sister does fit that description, and she alright
If that's true, you might want to be careful with sharing that online. Whatever I think, the law is a different matter entirely and social services look grimly on parents who are allowing underage children to have sexual relationships.
allowing underage children to have sexual relationships.
I never said she had underage sexual relationships, I've always been referring to online porn and unrestricted internet access. Sorry if there was confusion.
Although on the other hand, I don't think 16 or 18 are magic numbers, but as you correctly point out, there are legal concerns to watch out for.
I just don't think a NINE year old should be implicitly given free rein to browse hardcore pornography and to have sexual discussions in adult sex chatrooms with strangers. Straight up softcore porn is no enemy, but it's easy to go way beyond that. A 9 year old is emotionally and mentally streets away from a teenager, whether they're hitting puberty or not.
I've tended to think of myself as a mostly liberal guy, but seriously, if people think that letting 9 year olds check out pornography and talk on adult chat rooms is OK (judging by all the upboats you're getting), then today is the day I've finally become sexually conservative - at least compared to some of you(!)