I agree. I also think it should work both ways. The worst jobs I've ever had is when the sysadmins have the mindset where they own the servers and are unwilling to deviate from what they've read at the behest of the developers.
"I will force AV on reads on the developer boxes."
"I will install AV on the production DB servers without telling anyone in the development group, then make the developers prove AV was the cause of production slowness before removing it two weeks later."
"I will force this crazy group policy on developers and when they complain, I will totally ignore them."
A bad, or uncompromising sysadmin (one in the same) make development work a complete nightmare.
I half believe the reason developers are embracing cloud architecture so much is to remove so many sysadmins out of the equation.
On a side note, a tip for developers. Always make friends with the sysadmins. Buy them lunch or something. Right or wrong, they can make your lives much better or much more miserable.
> I half believe the reason developers are embracing cloud architecture so much is to remove so many sysadmins out of the equation.
It was literally true at one of my previous jobs. We couldn't install anything on our own dev machines without approval from Net Ops, not even Notepad++ (I don't think I ever got that installed, never got approval).
We once asked for a new server which mirrored the software of an existing server with two months lead time and got complaints that two months is not enough time to get a new server. I think we ended up getting it in three months, after the new project was supposed to be deployed to it.
Meanwhile we were starting to get into Azure, and we had a new server in Azure up and spinning with everything we needed installed on it in about 15 minutes.
The Lead Developer said, "We need to get as much stuff on the cloud as we can so we can stop dealing with this mess." We dealt with a lot of PHI there, though, so there was only so much we could do.
I've seen this as well. "Timeline from internal IT for provisioning a box and deploying our app is 6 months, and subsequent changes go through a ticketing system with a 2 week average turnaround. Or, we can have it running ourselves on AWS in 30 minutes."
Shit. So, you're saying that my mess of a team is kinda awesome by implementing reliable production-ready deployments within 2-4 weeks, and implementing changes to environments within like 30 minutes ("set key foo to bar in configs please?") to a week ("we need persistence!").
I guess IT in this place really is getting up to speed.
what your probably not seeing, is the CIO/CSO screaming at the SA to get AV deployed on every machine in the company, to meet some audit requirement checkbox, or PCI compliance, by the end of the month.
Exactly this. Audits don't care if there isn't any practical malware or if nobody can access the system outside 3306 and 22. Audits say "all production systems implement antivirus software" as a binary checkbox.
When I have seen this problem, it's because the sysadmins are instructed (or have learned via experience) not to explain their reasoning to developers or end-users. Because if they did, then it becomes a discussion or argument that becomes a time sink since there was very little chance they could change the mandate even if they agreed.
So they become intentionally opaque to move that discussion out of their laps and make it come via the development team managers confronting the operations managers and having the fight on that turf.
Such situations occurring is a sign that the organization is not set up effectively. This sort of confrontation shouldn't need to be happening.
Ideally the development team's lead and/or project managers are involved with, are informed ahead of time, or are even contributing to the policy decisions on the operational side.
Because telling someone that you did something because of compliance doesn't help. They still blame you personally even though the compliance standards are usually industry-wide or even defined by Congress as an act of law.
One of our web teams wanted to do a simple Wordpress deployment on LAMP. As sysadmins, that was no issue, even with clustered mariadb. But our DBA team doesn't have any experience outside of Oracle/MSSQL, and squawked about mariadb. After an hour of this BS, the manager of the web team spun up a few EC2 instances and got to work. Of course we don't have anyone familiar with EC2, so supporting that will be a learning curve for someone, but the manager is happy, he has his own sandbox without hassles from the DBAs.
"I will force AV on reads on the developer boxes." "I will install AV on the production DB servers without telling anyone in the development group, then make the developers prove AV was the cause of production slowness before removing it two weeks later." "I will force this crazy group policy on developers and when they complain, I will totally ignore them."
A bad, or uncompromising sysadmin (one in the same) make development work a complete nightmare.
I half believe the reason developers are embracing cloud architecture so much is to remove so many sysadmins out of the equation.
On a side note, a tip for developers. Always make friends with the sysadmins. Buy them lunch or something. Right or wrong, they can make your lives much better or much more miserable.