> As an example: I'm autistic and I learn inside-out, building larger new concepts out of smaller existing ones; those with Asperger's on the other paw, learn outside-in instead, breaking down larger existing concepts into smaller new ones; both are part of the "autism spectrum", but differ very fundamentally.
This is a really interesting observation - can you expand on this a bit more, please? How did you first notice this distinction?
When, for example, learning a new concept in math or physics, what would outside-in look like vs inside out? Would you characterise neurotypical learning in one way or the other?
> This is a really interesting observation - can you expand on this a bit more, please? How did you first notice this distinction?
A year or two ago I interacted with someone with Asperger's, and since that very rarely happens I hit a sort of uncanny valley with the way they wrote to me, because their writing gave me a lot of neurotypical vibes, but at the same time seemed a lot more logical and structured than actual neurotypical writing. They seemed to be building their writing and ideas out of logical tokens and constructs in an evidently autistic way, but so much of their writing looked neurotypical.
It was sort of like Scratch blocks, where they learned general templates for sentences and paragraphs from neurotypicals, and then substituted entire phrases at a time within them to achieve the desired communication. So while their templates and phrases were learned mostly from neurotypicals, the structure of their communication and usage of it still had a sort of logical system to it.
They remembered concepts by the phrases that had been used to explain it to them in the past, and reused those phrases verbatim, slotting them into the templates wholesale. They didn't fully parse everything like I do, they only broke things down as needed to create new logical tokens for new concepts. It's very interesting and fascinating. I mostly only know the one experience I've had, since I didn't get to speak to them again, but I've started to see it absolutely everywhere since.
> When, for example, learning a new concept in math or physics, what would outside-in look like vs inside out?
I can only guess, because I haven't interviewed someone with Asperger's about this, but I know what it looks like for me and I can guess what it could look like for them (at least for the purposes of the outside-in analogy).
For me, when I learn a new concept in math or physics, I want to build an intuition about that concept so I can come up with strategies about it and involving it. This actually mostly does not consist of algorithms related to the concept, but rather more of a fundamental intuition about the nature of the concept itself; what shape it is, what holes it fills, what types and classes of things it can do or model, etc. With this I can come up with my own algorithms on the fly, and also know when the concept might be relevant.
An outside-in learner, however, would be different. I have very little experience with the learning process or even with the execution process, but it's likely that they would not bother to break the concept all the way down and try to fully fundamentally understand it. Rather they might look to learn examples of it, algorithms and procedures relating to it, and ways to prove that their approach is correct. It would be less of "understand all the intricacies of this thing and every property it could possibly have and integrate that with everything else" and more of "fill a mental knowledge base with examples, applications, procedures relating to this thing".
> Would you characterise neurotypical learning in one way or the other?
I would not. I don't mean to imply that neurotypical logic is inherently more simplistic or inferior to autistic logic, but to me it seems far more like rote learning. They don't necessarily seem to break things down to understand the smaller details, but they don't really commit full logical tokens to memory either. They seem somewhere in the squishy middle, where they can be good at doing something that they don't understand at all, just because they practiced a lot, and they can be terrible at doing something that they understand far better, just because they're not practiced.
I've found that given I understand something well enough, I can perform better on the first try than some others who practice. That's not really a reliable indicator of much, but for me a lot comes from similar sources of truth, whereas it seems for a neurotypical they don't always necessarily organize or canonicalize their learnings, so their knowledge can be completely disjoint in areas that could totally be combined.
This is all just my personal experience/opinion though, fwiw.
You could argue that outside-in versus inside-out is more of a temperament than it is a form of neurodivergence. For example, what you're describing is basically typical of how Keirsey describes concrete versus abstract reasoning in Please Understand Me. And it could be kind of alienating to be the one abstract reasoner in a group of concrete reasoners and if you believe his statistics it's kind of likely that you'll find yourself in that situation a lot because you gravitate toward the abstract rather than the concrete/operational aspects of a concept.
I generally do the same thing when I'm learning something, and I have to fully understand a concept and then attack the concrete applications of the concept. But I've also learned how to go the other way when I need to because much of the technical writing I encounter is written for people who need a lot of examples but don't follow abstract concepts. So I've internalized building up the abstract concept from the concrete examples.
> You could argue that outside-in versus inside-out is more of a temperament than it is a form of neurodivergence.
I believe it is both. You can go against your brain's coding with some extra work; somewhat like an adapter, I suppose. Your brain just still is coded a certain way natively.
> or example, what you're describing is basically typical of how Keirsey describes concrete versus abstract reasoning in Please Understand Me. And it could be kind of alienating to be the one abstract reasoner in a group of concrete reasoners and if you believe his statistics it's kind of likely that you'll find yourself in that situation a lot because you gravitate toward the abstract rather than the concrete/operational aspects of a concept.
This is very interesting. I've never heard of concrete/abstract reasoners before, but that does sound similar to what I've described. Thank you for the book.
> much of the technical writing I encounter is written for people who need a lot of examples but don't follow abstract concepts.
Yes! I love using examples to illustrate applications of an abstract concept, but I always explain the concept first. When the concept isn't explained first, I am sad. :(
> So I've internalized building up the abstract concept from the concrete examples.
> Plenty of engineering blogs, for example, share that sort of tokenized writing style, like for instance this one I recently noticed
Hi, I'm the author of that blog. Can you tell me more about what you mean by a "tokenized writing style"? One confounding factor is that I have a PhD, so I was trained for many years to write in a formalized, academic style. Also, I deliberately put a lot of "signpost" phrases in my posts, since I'm writing about complex subjects and want to avoid readers getting lost.
It's difficult to explain, but it's similar to the Scratch blocks idea that I mentioned up above. To me, a "tokenized writing style" is one that looks composed of nested layers of structure, not exactly grammatical structure but more logical structure. It certainly appears that a lot of the specific patterns could have come from training, but regardless of what, if you don't have Asperger's, you certainly do a good job imitating it :)
I have been diagnosed with Aspergers not long before it became part of ASD. I don't really understand why you are disassociating yourself with Aspergers which was another word for "high-function" autism and is still used interchangeably.
Reading from what you have written - that is part of my experience, though I don't think that it has anything to do with being Aspergers or even being on a spectrum, but being alone a lot and educating myself a lot - that basically is what "smart people" in general are doing - including NT. Yes, there are a lot of people that do not actively learn, but that can apply to Aspergers as well as NT. That is not the reason for differences.
Just to save space and not to create another comment - "four phenotypes" are not new attempt to classify. To me it looks like rewording - before there was already quite clear distinction between Aspergers and Aspergers&ADHD combination - both of them are part of "high functioning autism", and they behave wildly differently(people with Aspergers&ADHD part might not be recognized as "weird" but even as NT - by other people). They were all part of spectrum anyway. And from reading the paper it seems, that they have made 2 other types for what was "low functioning" autism.
Apparently putting them all in ASD was not helping for bureaucracy - especially when it comes down to finances - it is quite important in Trumps USA and might be also for other countries.
> I don't really understand why you are disassociating yourself with Aspergers which was another word for "high-function" autism and is still used interchangeably.
People do often use the terms interchangeably, but that's not how I use it. I use Asperger's to refer to a specific place on the autism spectrum; I don't think there's a better term I can use right now. That place is as opposed to the three other phenotypes. I don't claim to know for absolute certain that the four phenotypes are correct, but I do believe strongly in the idea, because my lived experience appears to match with it closely. It has helped me understand others better, for sure. (Or at least to believe that I do)
I say I don't have Asperger's because I seem to function differently than others who do have it. When I encounter it, I find it interesting, because it's clearly different than how I function and that makes me curious. That makes me think I don't have it, because if I did, then surely I would be able to study myself to learn more about it, yet so far I can only speculate about how my experience must be different.
> Reading from what you have written - that is part of my experience, though I don't think that it has anything to do with being Aspergers or even being on a spectrum, but being alone a lot and educating myself a lot - that basically is what "smart people" in general are doing - including NT. Yes, there are a lot of people that do not actively learn, but that can apply to Aspergers as well as NT. That is not the reason for differences.
Of course neurotypical and neurodivergent people alike can educate themselves and learn. The difference is in how they learn, and what type of learning is most effective for them. Even among autistics, the most effective or natural style of learning can greatly differ. This is also why many schools have entirely different classes for autistic people, because the style of learning that works best for neurotypicals may not be as effective for an autistic person.
What I think has to do with Asperger's is in the type of knowledge that is most useful to you, and the style of learning that is most useful to you. I don't actually know this for sure, but I believe that for any given concept, you would probably use different aspects than I would to understand it. That means if I told you everything that I believe is most essential to my own understanding of something you don't understand yet, you still might not get it, because you might have different requirements to understand that thing, and you might find different things most essential to that understanding.
Of course, in some ways this is true for everyone, for example if my most essential pieces of knowledge relate to or build upon other of my knowledge that you also do not have. But in other ways this is only true across different neurotypes, such as Asperger's and neurotypical, or Asperger's and another type of autism, because generally each phenotype appears to share a largely similar type of logical structure. For Asperger's it appears to be those nested tokens, for myself it seems to be a linear stream of thought or reasoning, for some of my friends it appears to be based on context and metadata, and for others of my friends it appears to be based on emotions and lore (sort of hard to explain). That makes four, and every single autistic person I know or encounter seems to fit into one of those boxes. Sometimes it takes longer to tell for sure, but I believe that I eventually always can.
> Just to save space and not to create another comment - "four phenotypes" are not new attempt to classify. To me it looks like rewording - before there was already quite clear distinction between Aspergers and Aspergers&ADHD combination - both of them are part of "high functioning autism", and they behave wildly differently(people with Aspergers&ADHD part might not be recognized as "weird" but even as NT - by other people). They were all part of spectrum anyway. And from reading the paper it seems, that they have made 2 other types for what was "low functioning" autism. Apparently putting them all in ASD was not helping for bureaucracy - especially when it comes down to finances - it is quite important in Trumps USA and might be also for other countries.
It's entirely possible that Asperger's without ADHD is, well, Asperger's, while Asperger's with ADHD is actually not Asperger's, and is rather another autism phenotype instead. To be honest, I've never heard of Asperger's + ADHD, while I've heard of ADHD for all three of the other types, so maybe that's the difference you are observing. I can't know for sure though.
I believe low-functioning autistics may happen to have brain defects or severe trauma or something else that disables them. I don't believe they are fundamentally different from other autistics in terms of the phenotype. I believe that a lot of the time, whether someone is called low-functioning is based primarily on how well they are able to function and how much support they need, and not really specific indicators that would indicate phenotype. Similar to how the criteria for ASD can diagnose autism, but not specifically Asperger's or specifically my type. I know that all four of the phenotypes certainly can be high-functioning, so that leads me to believe that low-functioning may be on top of that, and not a separate category altogether.
I don't think Trump has anything to do with this -- in fact he has been trying to shut down government benefits for autism (and for other things he views as a disability), so it's hard for me to believe that he cares about better classifying them when he seems to want them dead.
The point is that 90% of the news is unimportant. Often you can read a weekly and that is enough
A politician said something and other politicians reacted. Usually unimportant unless it was backed by a law or something. If it was important then the weekly will cover it.
Main Character of the day on Social media. unimportant
A crime happened nearby. Unimportant
A celeb did something. Unimportant
Something happened to random person. Unimportant
Sport result. If you follow that team you already know, if not then not important.
Seriously go to the front page of the New York times or some other outfit and count the stories that you needed to read today.
All of this is very easy to filter out while browsing the internet. Not when you are speaking with actual persons. Believe or not, there are still people who watch television and believe in old media.
Television teaches them that the proper response to someone disagreeing is to get angry and shout when the opposing party tries to explain their point of view. Something that is useless or even technically impossible in anonymous net forums.
If you look at the old media, important decisions are mentioned but completely ignored after someone has said something offensive or an accident happened somewhere.
Social media is people and people are the problem, not technology or anonymity. Everyone who has spent Christmas with relatives knows this.
I guess I would always wonder who's paying them. YouTube doesn't pay them a salary so is it the ads or is this one side of the story paying for exposure
I think OP's point is that if your life is so blessed that "90% of the news is unimportant to you" then that itself is a great, fortunate privilege.
For example, I can tell you that if you are an immigrant in the USA from one of the (now many) targeted countries, even one with legal residency, news about ICE's actions is very relevant and very important to you.
> For example, I can tell you that if you are an immigrant in the USA from one of the (now many) targeted countries, even one with legal residency, news about ICE's actions is very relevant and very important to you.
Exactly. There's a post from last week on how media/journalism became more entertainment than information, and I think the complete opposite of the first reply: If you have bandwidth and time to consume most of those "world news", then you're the privileged.
One example: In Germany if you watch/read the state regional public broadcast from Berlin[1] for 2 days you will learn more about the whereabouts of Donald Trump, the President of Ukraine, sports news, or some broad reporting about "cultural" aspect of the city (e.g. about Hildegard Knef, something about Karl Lagerfeld and so on), or general gossip.
The city itself has fewer private investments than 5 years, the schools lack basic infrastructure, educational ratings are dropping, delays in public transportation, the hospitals are lacking personnel, 10% unemployment, and an awful housing situation, squeezing the working people.
[1] - I'm totally in favor of public broadcasting that comes from the principle called "broadcast what you want to become or aspire to be" that is more focused on factual journalism (i.e., no commentary), educational programs (especially with Public Universities STEM lectures being broadcasted), educational cartoons, classic music and orchestras, and space/nature/technology documentaries.
> ICE's actions is very relevant and very important to you.
Maybe the first few stories are, but what past masked goons throwing up Nazi salutes and sending people to foreign labor camps do you need to keep up on? If you're into politics, then sure, but your average Joe probably doesn't need to know that they're, yet again, terrorizing people and acting like a secret police force.
Are we forgetting that this specific policy we are discussing was voted in by the public and won the popular vote barely more than a year ago?
I think if more people were legitimately better educated and informed that outcome might not have happened.
The problem is…who is doing the informing and educating? Oftentimes the sources taking up that role are doing so with motives that are not in the people’s best interests.
Wow. Great. Which term is our President on again and can you confirm that time flows linearly and cannot, in fact, flow backwards to undo the election?
The public has no ability to affect change on the policy this Presidency makes. Especially not the public that is predisposed to dislike the President.
This is sadistic and selfish to believe the public must be relentlessly informed of these individual policies that they cannot do anything about. Anything they are informed about present day will almost certainly be forgotten years down the line. But they'll be stressed and unhappy along the way.
Well now you’re moving goalposts by adding specific time periods as qualifiers. So when you made your original statement, you meant to say that the ability to affect change ended recently? And now “This is foisting misery on people who have no capacity to affect change.”
Well, even that isn’t true. The congressional midterms are next year. Control over congress is on the ballot. Turnout will be the decider as it always is.
If “did not vote” was a candidate, it often wins elections.
In addition, local politics happen every year with higher levels of influence per person, and they often directly affect individuals more than national politics.
Going around telling people they have no impact guarantees that outcome.
Considering time does, in fact, move linearly and only in one direction - it's a default. Not a moved goalpost.
And referring to the present in contrast with the next Presidential election - an event thematically related to the previous Presidential election that you referenced - it seemed relevant.
As for what people need to be informed about - they'll inform themselves via increased prices on just about everything due to tarriffs + continued lowered interest rates despite notable inflationary pressures.
I maintain it is cruel to relentlessly and aggressively inform people of the horrors of the world that they - and I repeat myself - cannot do anything about. From news media fewer and fewer trust every year.
If you were right, it wouldn't be so egregious. Unfortunately, due to lower hiring standards, expedited processes, and a general nonchalance towards the law, plenty of legal immigrants, green card holders, and even natural-born citizens have been wrongfully arrested by ICE because they fit the profile of who they're looking for. Just look up "ICE deports legal immigrant", and you'll find dozens and dozens of stories about various cases involving it.
And regardless of if it's intentional, if it's negligence, if it's just an acceptable margin of error, either way, if you're a legal immigrant, you very much do still have to worry about ICE.
Categorically false. You might need to brush up on current events regarding ICE actions being taken against legal permanent residents and even US Citizens.
This is a lie. I call this a lie because you should know better if you are informed on this subject. I assume that one would be informed to make a statement such as yours.
There are legal immigrants being detained in secrecy for weeks on end with no due process, today, in this country. It is not made up, it is easily verifiable with a quick internet search and a look into one of multiple stories available.
“Lie”
I suggest not just reading clickbait headlines. Read the last 2 or 3 paragraphs of story where the writers often bury the inconvenient facts. Such as charges that would invalidate a legal immigrant’s status.
Millions of people who are from other countries are living perfectly fine in the US and not hiding in fear.
That's just it though, the "news" is not providing valuable information to the majority of people, it's mostly a series of takes designed to fit into easily digestible narratives so they can attract enough viewers to survive as a business.
99.9% of people would be better voters if they put five hours a week toward reading about and better understanding shit from an undergrad liberal arts program (history, political philosophy, statistics, media studies, basic physical science, economics) and five hours a year into catching up on the news, than vice versa.
Increase education funding, mandate a couple of levels of free choice liberal arts/philosophy type courses to ensure people have to expand their thinking a little, focus on critical thinking and media analysis skills in primary and secondary education - not as the main focus but certainly as important, civic building classes.
News media gets harsh anti-monopoly rules: no more billionaires owning every station in every jurisdiction, in fact no more conglomerates whatsoever. More independent funding for local news: I'm content for a bunch of these to go bankrupt on a regular basis but we'll sponsor more people putting out independent journalism.
At an international scale spin off an entity like the Federal Reserve which would be the Federal International Reporting Bureau with some iron clad rules about funding changes and the sole mission to baseline the availability of boots-on-the-ground international journalism, with a mission charter the citizenry must have accurate reporting to understand how they will choose leaders to guide international politics. This one would be tricky to get right, I suspect you'd probably end up tying resource allocation to government funding alotments and the like via some automatic mechanisms.
The first and last are probably pie in the sky: really let's start by shredding a couple of media empires into 50 different fiefdoms and let them battle it out for views, but there'll be no more mergers or cross-media ownership that's for sure.
Personally I'm all for breaking up the media conglomerates. Especially the news. There is a tremendous amount of group-think from professional elites who all goto the same universities and then go work in the same newsrooms. When combined with endless M&A it creates insular monoculture with low tolerance for opposing views in most of these news outlets.
> At an international scale spin off an entity like the Federal Reserve which would be the Federal International Reporting Bureau with some iron clad rules about funding changes and the sole mission to baseline the availability of boots-on-the-ground international journalism
That sounds great in theory, but given the recent scandals at the BBC and uncovering of systematic bias there we can see how fragile such institutions can be. Even without M&A driving it the BBC has become a primarily leftist monoculture.
> Increase education funding, mandate a couple of levels of free choice liberal arts/philosophy type courses to ensure people have to expand their thinking a little
Sounds great, but also prone to systemic bias. Universities in general have become echo chambers in liberal arts departments.
Perhaps combine that with options for doing national service of some sort that would balance out education. Afterall, classroom learning only gives one aspect of life and experience. Often just exposing people to new places and environments broadens their outlooks.
German peasants in the 17th century seemed to manage just fine without 24/7 news coverage.
Almost all news that's actually important - that might actually affect your life - will find you one way or another. Most news isn't important (eg sports drama). Or it isn't urgent (eg tariff news). Or both, like celebrity gossip.
Only a vanishingly small percentage of news is both urgent and important. And there's plenty of people in my life who would tell me if - for example - we needed to evacuate the city due to a fire.
Really. You can switch off. It'll be ok. Try it, and you'll see.
He referred to the Thirty Years War where instead of doomscrolling the peasant especially living in southwestern Germany would get his war news by getting killed or starved and his home burned down.
This is a nice package, and a great illustration of how languages other than R suffer from the lack of an aesthetically elegant way to select list elements with bare words, like R's $ operator.
Because their lists don't have selection by bare words, they have to go one of several other specialized, distinct, built-in Abstract Data Types to get it. They have to create whole so-called "Classes" and "Modules", when all they really needed was a list whose elements can be accessed with a dot and a bare word.
The pandas package for tabular data manipulation requires even more complicated workarounds. It has a DataFrame Class composed of objects of Column Class. Then it makes an arbitrary bunch of common functions, so common that many are built into Python itself, Methods of said Columns. (In R, a table is just a list of vectors, and no Methods are needed.)
So now you've got a thing that's supposedly a real Class, but it's really just a container of completely arbitrary fields and data types. These fields are themselves instances of another Class that is supposedly specific to pandas, but is really just a vector, and a vector doesn't necessarily have anything to do with being part of a table. And that Class has some random methods that give you additional ways to do basic things the language already does, and are often not the functions you actually need to work with the data therein.
All that just so that we can write stuff like df.col.max(), and... gosh, what is that even supposed to mean? Can we all just admit that we like writing code in chains separated by dots, and stop tying that capability to hierarchies of Official Abstract Data Types?
These non-R languages make you utter such strange incantations just to put something in a key-value container and access that thing with nice-looking code. I feel like this makes it harder to realize that very often this is the best way of doing things.
R has a bit more varied and sometimes mildly ugly syntax than other languages, but once you get used to the building blocks it gives you, it has all these powers to do very dynamic things in very easy ways, without a bunch of ponderous specialized concepts.
What do you mean? Many languages allow accessing named properties like that. Even JavaScript :)
The strange thing here seems to be R’s use of ”list” as a name for a map-like key-value structure. The word ”list” is commonly understood to refer to a data structure which needs to be linearly (linked list) or partially (skiplist) iterated through to access a value at a particular index.
Total nitpick - you say list is commonly understood to be linearly iterated. I’d expect a list to refer to an ordered sequence - default implementation of access and mutation varies wildly between languages. E.g. java code usually defaults to ArrayList, lisps to cons cells, C++ doubly linked list, etc.
Sql has “tuples” for the rows of a result-set which are neither tuples nor lists in the “general sense” and are of a “record” type - names with values.
I guess I don't know enough about enough other languages to make broad generalizations. Oh well, it's too late to edit now.
My impression is that JavaScript is another language like R that values flexibility a lot.
And yeah, I agree that R is rather casual about lists vs maps. It doesn't really care that maps are a great data structure in their own right. It just wants to slap names on list elements when it's convenient to access elements of the list by name.
It scares me that people think like this. Not only with respect to AI but in general, when it comes to other life forms, people seem to prefer to err on the side of convenience. The fact that cows could be experiencing something very similar to ourselves should send shivers down our spine. The same argument goes for future AGI.
I find it strange that people believe cows and sentient animals don’t believe something extremely similar to what we do.
Evolution means we all have common ancestors and are different branches of the same development tree.
So if we have sentience and they have sentience, which science keeps recognizing, belatedly, that non human animals do, shouldn’t the default presumption be our experiences are similar? Or at the very least their experience is similar to a human at an earlier stage of development, like a 2 year old?
Which is also an interesting case study given that out of convenience, humans also believed that toddlers also weren’t sentient and felt no pain, and so until not that long ago, our society would conduct all sorts of surgical procedures on babies without any sort of pain relief (circumcision being the most obvious).
It’s probably time we accept our fellow animals’s sentience and act on the obvious ethical implications of that instead of conveniently ignoring it like we did with little kids until recently.
This crowd would sooner believe silicon hardware (an arbitrary human invention from the 50s-60s) will have the physical properties required for consciousness than accept that they participate in torturing literally a hundred billion consciousness animals every year.
I’m actually a vegan because I believe cows have consciousness. I believe consciousness is the only trait worth considering when applying morality questions. Arbitrary hardware is conscious.
In general, I found starting with a Erlang/Elixir framework tutorial helps. Phoenix includes a generic wrapper on top of PostgreSQL (Ecto provides data mapping and language integrated query), and hit a surprising number of users per host with trivial code (common game engine back-end.)
The only foot-gun I would initially avoid, is a fussy fault-tolerant multi-host cluster deployment. Check out RabbitMQ package maintainers, as those guys certainly offer a fantastic resource for students ( https://www.rabbitmq.com/docs/which-erlang .)
Isn't the issue that historical data is consistent with the overturning model, which adds weight to our assumption that it has previously been stable. These new measurements (and observations?) are consistent with the overturning circulation weakening.
I agree with you in principle - my impression (perhaps wrong - not an expert) was that there are additional data points supporting the idea of a consistent status quo.
Is this you have implemented in practice? Sounds like a great idea, but I have no idea how you would make it work it a structured way (or am I missing the point…?)
Can be easy depending on your setup - you can basically just write high level functional tests matching use cases of your API, but as prompts to a system with some sort of tool access, ideally MCP. You want to see those tests pass, but you want them to pass with the simplest possible prompt (a sort of regularization penalty, if you like). You can mutate the prompts using an LLM if you like to try different/shorter phrasings. The Pareto front of passing tests and prompt size/complexity is (arguably) how good a job you're doing structuring/documenting your API.
This is a really interesting observation - can you expand on this a bit more, please? How did you first notice this distinction?
When, for example, learning a new concept in math or physics, what would outside-in look like vs inside out? Would you characterise neurotypical learning in one way or the other?