Well, I think the only major competitor to Bloglines these days is Google Reader which is in... C++ as well. Well, I would guess also probably a few bits of Python in between. Any googlers here? :)
treat the c++ standard as an assembly language of sort, from which higher level langs are built, like boost. if you look at it this way, you can carve out a sane section and deal with it. if you try to hold the entirety of it in your head and code, its hell
Can anyone recommend a book that deals with the web/server-side aspect of C++ coding? I'm nearly half way through Thinking in C++ by Bruce Eckel (wonderfully well written!) but it doesn't look like it's getting near there.
Hmm, I'm not sure if $3k is all you'll ever need for Java hardware. If the application is big enough you're likely to have keep on spending on vertical scaling. But then again, that's what big enterprises like to do: spend money on big boxes.
Which leads me to point that out that Java is far from suitable for a start-up. I'm beginning to think that Python plus C/C++ might be the golden bullet for startups. Ruby's C integration is easier than Python, but there's something to be said about the overall language model and performance. I tend to have a main RoR app for the website and a few Python daemons in the background for the really heavy stuff, and now it's finally the time to think about offloading some of that load even further closer to the machine, in C/C++.
I'd really love to come up with a standardized way of deploying small, context-specific RESTful API servers in either C or C++. I'm starting to think that a possible C++/Python bridge via Thrift is likely the best option. But then again, if I just managed to keep it all in a C++ application without needing to run the Python interpreter, it could totally rock (for an application that is supposed to serve 100k+ users on cheap hardware).
It's cool to see cloud computing going mainstream and now applications written in any language can be reasonably fast with the help of EC2, a load balancer and memcached. But I still think there's great value to coming up with truly lightweight solutions that really use nearly all computing power a single node can possibly offer.
"Which leads me to point that out that Java is far from suitable for a start-up"
You can't generalize like that. It's a language. It works. It scales, and is solid.
Sure, if you're just putting up something that needs quick prototyping then java is probably overkill, but if you're writing something quite complex, java can do a great job.
I think the "golden bullet" for startups is having a good programmer with a passion for something. Language isn't so relevant IMHO.
(Mibbit currently handles around 3.5million visits a month on a single VPS in java which I'm pretty happy with).
What do you use for your templating engine? We are use struts2 as our framework and found that OGNL and struts2 tags are two orders of magnitude slower than straight JSP.
I'm thinking of ditching JSP and have PHP talking to our Java services via Thrift.
3.5 million visits is small in current internet terms. And now having a look, it is a small text message system. No media, no video, not many images. Sorry, but it's not a good example at all.
At peak it handles 500+ lines of chat a second. That's quite a bit more than twitter. It also has around twice the number of peak users than Meebo rooms. So although it's certainly not a massive site, it has taken some thought to scale.
Having big images/videos wouldn't really make any difference to which language you choose. That's just static media files which are irrelevant.
I really don't see how having more images on the page would make it harder to scale :/ if only the site were as simple as serving up some images...
Where is your site that receives 3.5M visits per month? It doesn't matter what language or platform you use. Handling 3.5M visits takes some thought. In fact, where can we find anything to support your language-bashing in your last few posts? I see you knocking down other people's suggestions without putting forth anything of substance yourself.
First, please take a deep breathe. This is a technical discussion and it doesn't necessarily need to have "a winner."
Second, please look my other posts 4 and 6 minutes before this one you just did.
On a C++ thread some people above say the thread creator should use Java. I refuted that argument with my opinion and reasoning. It is not bashing:
bash:
- To engage in harsh, accusatory, threatening criticism.
-ing When you deliberately attack a person using offensive and/or inappropriate language.
See on top of this page:
"Suppose I wanted to write a C++ based web application... [...] But what if I just wanted to write plain C++?"
Can't Java people play along? Can't you guys even play pretend? There are very good comments in this thread (both pro and con.) And if you think C++ Web Applications are a bad idea, fine, say so and state your case. There was no need to bring up Java. Of course you are free to do so. But that allows others (moi) to counter-argue with you.
For the record, I am a C++ person, not a Java person. C++ is far and away my strongest language. Nevertheless, I believe that for general web app development, if you want something in the C++ family of languages, Java is more appropriate. At my startup we use a handful of languages for different tasks, C++ and Java among them.
I don't think anyone would have really jumped on the memory comment originally, but what made the thread asbestos-o-riffic however was the assertion that Java is inappropriate for a startup, which is, well, just plain silly.
This really doesn't make a lot sense. Java is also easy to bind to C / C++ and its performance is better than Ruby or Python. The logic behind that seems to be ... that scaling in memory usage is important but not CPU usage? I'm not really a Java apologist, but it just seems another one of those languages that people bash because it's cool to bash.
In sensible hands, you can exchange Java for C++ and get very similar performance for a lot less hassle, and (increasingly) lean on scripting the same way you would with python/ruby. Of course that means ignoring the way "enterprises" mostly use java (which is just silly), and using it more the way google does.
Please note I mentioned memory. Java is OK on bare language algorithm implementation speed, but if you have a look at all the benchmarks in the language shootout its memory needs are up to 108 times better. A conservative consideration would be 10 times better in the average algorithm.
That is compounded with the typical architecture of Java frameworks. Also finding issues sometimes feels like occult magic on modern JVMs. And then, running with compatibility issues on JVM versions and all that.
Java failed in the browser and now it will probably have a crash at the server. There is no more budget for multimillion dollar datacentres everywhere. But thanks for all the jobs! :)
Why do you seem to think that java requires more servers?
It's a language.
Maybe specific crappy jsp frameworks require more servers, but that's not java.
It's no proof, but real life shows something even worse than that against Java. For example the one thread per connection model everywhere or the XML web services throwing away objects faster than the GC can handle.
>For example the one thread per connection model everywhere or the XML web services throwing away objects
Hence my statement:
> ignoring the way "enterprises" mostly use java (which is just silly)
Of course the thread per connection model is long gone (at least what I have heard, but software tends to not die) and the XML beast is dying... but that it more how people abuse it.
but if its memory you want, you can't do better then using the OS to its full power via C/C++, which is what you are doing when you are using C/C++. Using anything that is a full VM (like jvm, or if you think that is opaque - give erlang a try !) then you kind of tell the OS to "go away" and the VM becomes an OS etc...
I might be a patsy for saying this, but you're not serious, are you? Valleywag has the highest ratio of noise to signal of any site that I've seen - with the exception of the other sites in the Gawker portfolio. I try to avoid that entire branch of blogs unless I've got good reason to, or unless I'm recommended one article in particular.
obviously. the banks just want to charge higher interest rates, which they should. i would too given the debt load of the average consumer or company.
what this boils down to is the govt legislating low interest rates. they can't. even lowering the fed rate won't stop the rise in intrabank and consumer interest rates
Good point, although I think it was disingenuous of the author not to mention that interest rates are higher. I think that is clearly another type of "tightening."
why do you want to do this??? there are plenty of c/c++ web apps written out there, i have written some myself. its pain central. you do it only when you cannot spare cycles or memory per session and cut the safety nets. just buy another server. in man-hours you will be out ahead.
You are wrong. I generally buy a new laptop every 3 years. I tend to buy a bit up the curve and get 1.5 years where the beast is fast, one year where the beast is "adequate" and half a year where the beast is "slow". To me, it is not about performance in laptops. It is about keyboard stability, robustness and weight. I have a blindingly fast desktop-computer and my laptop is for when I am not at home or when I want to hack code in the recliner. I don't need prime performance for that.
i can safely say that you, seeking not performance but "keybaord stability" in a laptop, are a market of one. its so sad to see the fanbois try to justify their iSlavery, almost like a battered wife telling the judge she reaaaallyyyy stiiiill loooooves hiiiim.
The advice I consistently give people when buying laptops is: Remember that you can't change the hardware. If you hate a trackpad, you will be stuck with it. If you hate the keyboard: though luck. Too slow a CPU? oh god, no chance in hell you'll be able to change it.
I write code and analyze problems for a living. Hence, my need for a fast CPU is not that important as I spend most of the time in emacs and use languages that can compile fast. Do we happen to be a minority? Perhaps so. Had I been a media executive, then my priorities would probably not be on the keyboard at all but on how much RAM i could cram into the beast.
Apple is selling a brand as much as they are selling a laptop and an OS. Notice that the marketing focuses on what you can do with an apple mac. They know how much you are buying an identity for your money in addition to a computer. The Apple marketing is primary recruitment unit for the "fanbois" you mention because what they can do with the Macs matter to them.
If you look at Lenovo's sales pitches, you will see an entirely different focus as they are targeting a different user base.
And for the record:
jlouis@succubus:~$ uname -a
Linux succubus 2.6.27-4-generic #1 SMP Wed Sep 24 01:30:51 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux
jlouis@succubus:~$ dmesg | grep thinkpad_acpi | grep model
[ 26.622322] thinkpad_acpi: IBM ThinkPad X40, model 23716EG
I also look for a good keyboard in a laptop before I look at most other factors. This has kept me with Thinkpads until recently, and now I'm on a Fujitsu T2010.
How about cutting the cost of enterprise software, 1.5% of our GDP, using web/mobile technology?
How about using web/mobile technology to improve supply chain management, logistics, warehousing, shipping, transportation, and manufacturing so that as a country, we can transition to solar energy at the least cost and afford to produce a 125mpg car that costs less than 25k?
We have only barely begun to use computers and the internet to their full potential, you just have to look in the right places for the big ideas.
How about using web/mobile technology to improve supply chain management, logistics, warehousing, shipping, transportation, and manufacturing so that as a country
Google is basically my first destination when I have a question on anything -- whether it's looking for a restaurant, or solution to a bug I can't fix. I can't imagine my life without Google anymore.
Don't you remember the days without Google? I used to have 4-5 search engines open when I need to search for something -- Yahoo, Infoseek, Altavista, Meta Crawler, Excite... Thank goodness for Google I don't have to waste hours looking for something!
I use Google every day and so do millions (billions?) of people. It depends how you measure it, but Google has probably affected more people than Ebay.
The economics of starting a website are still very attractive compared to those alternatives. You can start with a few thousand dollars. You can't sell a car without (random guess) a billion dollars. You can't sell solar panels without (random guess) a 100 million dollars.
The economics of starting a website are still very attractive compared to those alternatives.
which is why every superposition of possible websites has been explored eleventeen times. seriously, come up with your idea, i will point you to three people already doing it
On one hand, I can your point. On the other, I remember similar sentiments being expressed in 2001 and 2002.
Besides, you don't always have to be working on the "next big thing" in order to be successful. I know lots of successful, and wealthy, people who innovate in fields that are hundreds of years old.
The next big thing is always a superhuman effort to transform the world. You can do that, by making the entirety of human knowledge available (Wikipedia, Google), with a website, but the website itself won't be enough, yes.
