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Crazy that someone would use this pseudonym while at the same time saying that all society's problems are caused by socialist and Communist conspiracy.

Go to any Vintage Computer Festival and ask the people exhibiting how clever and witty they think questions about running Crysis are.

Then don’t use AI to contribute.

They mostly relied on OS/Toolbox implementation quirks though, not hardware implementation quirks, because applications that relied on the latter wouldn’t run on the Macintosh XL and that mattered to certain market segments. (Like some people using spreadsheets, who were willing to trade CPU speed for screen size.) Similarly anything that tried to use floppy copy protection tricks wouldn’t work due to the different system design, so that wasn’t common among applications.

So even things that wrote directly to the framebuffer would ask the OS for the address and bounds rather than hardcode them, copy protection would be implemented using license keys (crypto/hashes, not dongles) rather than weird track layouts on floppies, etc. It led to good enough forward compatibility that the substantial architectural changes in the Macintosh II were possible, and things just improved from there.


Eh, there were plenty of games that were coded for a particular clock speed, and then once the SE came out, had an update that included a software version of a turbo button, let you select which of two speeds to run at. They run FAST on an SE/30 or Mac II and unusably fast on anything newer.

I didn’t encounter too many of those back in the day, I think because there was the VBL task mechanism for synchronizing with screen refresh that made it easy to avoid using instruction loops for timing.

Much more common in my experience was the assumption that the framebuffer was 1-bit, but such games would still run on my IIci if I switched to black & white—they’d just use the upper left 3/4 of the screen since they still paid proper attention to the bytes-per-row in its GrafPort.

Could be that by the time I was using a Mac II though that all the games that didn’t meet that minimum bar had already been weeded out.


Yeah, there were a bunch of floppy games which only ran on an original Mac or maybe a Plus. No go with even my Mac SE.

It was actually mostly written in assembly, but used Pascal calling conventions and structure layouts since that was expected to be the primary language for application developers. As it had been for Lisa, as it was for “large” applications on Apple II, and as was the case for much of the rest of the microcomputer and minicomputer industry and even the nascent workstation industry (eg Apollo).

It was the Lisa system software that was mostly implemented in Pascal and some blamed this for its largeness and its performance. Compilers and linkers weren’t great back then; most compiler code generation was pretty rigid, and most linkers didn’t even coalesce identical string literals across compilation unit boundaries!

Lisa Workshop C introduced the “pascal” keyword for function declarations and definitions to indicate they used Pascal calling conventions, and otherwise followed Lisa Pascal structure layout rules, so as to minimize the overhead of interoperating with the OS. (I’m not sure whether it introduced the “\p” Pascal string literal convention too or if that came later with Stanford or THINK Lightspeed C.)


That brings back the memories. I had a copy of Lightspeed C for the Mac in college.

In the workstation world, most companies used C and not Pascal. Apollo was different in that regard as their operating system, Domain, was unique to themselves, while most of the other workstation companies (Sun, HP, DEC, and IBM) were using Unix variants of some time (either BSD-based or System V-based in most cases). Apollo Domain was written in Pascal and was definitely not Unix-based. It had many unique and interesting features. In particular it had very sophisticated authentication and file sharing capabilities. A user could log in on any machine that was part of the domain (hence the name) and the user’s complete file system would be made available over the network on that hardware. Every system on the network shared a domain-level file system which removed the need for many Unix solutions like NFS. I had just accepted a job offer out of college from HP’s workstation division when HP bought Apollo. By the time I started, a couple months later, I was part of the HP side of the Apollo Systems Division.


You’re talking about the workstation world circa 1985 and later, but prior to then the victory of C and UNIX wasn’t a sure thing. Apollo was the big player, but they weren’t the only ones.

In particular, many minicomputer vendors had some type of graphics and engineering workstation system built around their minicomputer product line, whether multi-user (where you’d have one minicomputer or even mainframe serving multiple bitmap or vector graphics terminals) or single-user (whether using a dedicated low-end minicomputer as a single-user system or using a new CPU design).

The Xerox Alto is what everyone cites as the start of the workstation trend, but it didn’t just beget the Xerox Star, the Lisp Machine, and the Lisa, it also led to the Three Rivers PERQ and CAD/CAE environments built on top of modular hardware from Data General and DEC, to the point where eventually DG, DEC, HP, and others released their own graphical workstations based on their minicomputer architectures.

All of these used vendor operating systems, not UNIX, and almost all emphasized the use of Pascal and FORTRAN for high-level application development. (The ones that didn’t had vendor languages too, like InterLISP and Mesa for Xerox.)


A good example of this dichotomy is the Puzzle Desk Accessory --- originally written in Pascal (as an example of making a DA thus), it was too large to include on a 400KB micro-floppy disk, so was re-written in assembly language going from 6K Bytes to 600 Bytes:

https://www.folklore.org/Puzzle.html


This is exactly the sort of project that can serve as the basis for such a system.

What happens when lobbying for a new deal fails? Do the people just shrug and accept the fate their feudal lords have determined for them?

and what happens when people don't want a new deal? Violence is ok then?

Thats what the Pinkertons were for, yes.

Many libraries or library systems actually have something like this. In the Bay Area, the large Santa Clara Library does and at least had regular drop-in hours.


My local library can do vhs and all the various smaller form tapes that came in between like mini dv. They also support cassette tapes and the various consumer projectors people used back when home movies were just becoming a thing. They even have a large bed scanner you can fill with photos and the software will turn them into individual files.


There is a network of Memory Labs (1) and many more that are not part of the network. Check your local libraries to see if they have one. The Kansas City area has one at the Johnson County library.

1) https://memorylabnetwork.github.io


They do if they want me to use it.


You can, in fact, be pursued both civilly and criminally for fraud.

Your admissions here are enough that if you tried to contribute to any of my own Open Source projects, I would reject your contributions, and if I had accepted any prior ones I would pursue legal remedies.


I’d really like to know the specific legal remedies you’d pursue, assuming that I had contributed to one of your projects, based on this hacker news thread.

Can you stop LARPing and walk me through it? Please?


You stated that you will fraudulently misrepresent the origin of contributions you make to projects if you feel like it, and that nobody has any recourse. That’s you LARPing, by thinking there’s no recourse for fraud.

First of all, I don’t take anonymous or pseudonymous contributions to any of my projects, so if you had made any contributions I would have your real-world identity. That should tell you right away that recourse is possible.

Then, if I learned or had reasonable suspicion that your real-world identity mapped to Hacker News user “orf,” I would instruct my attorney to send a formal contributor agreement to you to sign within a certain period of time that certifies that you are indeed the sole author of all of the content you submitted to the project, and that you did not copy it from another codebase without proper attribution or license, or use an LLM to write it.

If you refused to sign such an agreement, or signed it and were discovered to be lying, I would file a lawsuit for the cost of having having to remove your contributions for possible fraudulent misrepresentation of their origin, for the cost of having to hire one or more developers to recreate any any important downstream work that depended upon your contributions using clean-room techniques, and for punitive damages to ensure you were dissuaded from making fraudulent misrepresentations in the future.

That’s not LARPing, that’s what any business will do in the event of a possible breach of contract. Just because many open source projects don’t have someone like me involved with the financial resources to pursue such a suit as far as necessary doesn’t mean that none do.


You’d send me a contributor agreement, after I’ve contributed, to retroactively ask if I used a LLM to write the code, and if I refused you’d then sue me for nebulous ill-defined damages and for breaching a non-existent contract?

So in your head, I could contribute a change that introduces a bug and as a result you could sue me for the time it took you to fix it?

Are you OK?

I was hoping for something with a “I’m a big strong serious tough guy” vibe but that’s a bit much. However I guess you can file a civil case for practically anything in some countries, and if you’re retired/unemployed maybe writing this kind of internet police fan-fiction is considered fun?

Do another one, this time where it’s not thrown out as a clearly frivolous suit with no legal basis.


You broke the site guidelines repeatedly in this thread, including by crossing into all sorts of personal attacks. I realize that you were provoked, but you were also provoking.

We've actually been asking you not to do this for years. This is bad:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43121242 (Feb 2025)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23207733 (May 2020)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14362936 (May 2017)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13898229 (March 2017)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12117076 (July 2016)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12108386 (July 2016)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11864815 (June 2016)

I'm not going to ban you for this episode because everyone goes on tilt sometimes. But if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and do what it takes to recalibrate so that you're using the site as intended going forward, we'd be grateful.


No, you’re still either being intentionally obtuse or unintentionally clueless.

A condition of making a contribution to one of my projects is that you haven’t used an LLM to create that contribution. By making a contribution, you are agreeing to this restriction, even without having any formal document signed.

If I then found out that you may have defrauded the project by lying about the origin of your contribution—say because you said openly and publicly “I would just lie about using an LLM”—then I would first give you a chance to declare that no, really, you didn’t commit fraud in these cases because even though you publicly said you would just lie, I’m betting that you wouldn’t lie in signing a multipage contract with specific penalties for breach.

If you wouldn’t sign that contract, then I would sue you to address the damage your fraud caused the project, which would include removing all of your contributions and anything depending upon them from not just the present codebase but the project history, as well as documenting and hiring someone from outside the project to clean-room recreate anything I deem important that did depend upon them.

These damages are not nebulous or ill-defined: Because of the untrustworthy provenance of your contributions, they *must* be removed, and they also taint anything dependent upon them.

In all of your replies on this topic you really sound like a teenager who hasn’t quite understood that your actions really can have consequences.

If you look into why it was historically very difficult to find GNU emacs code for older versions, it’s because of a situationexactly like this: Stallman just copied some code from Unipress (Gosling) emacs into GNU emacs, presumably thinking he could get away with the copyright violation. (He evidently hadn’t learned from getting smacked down for directly copying Symbolics code into the LMI codebase.) The end result is that FSF and mirrors had to stop distributing the versions of GNU emacs containing the Unipress-originated code.

This is not a LARP, this is stuff that actually happens in the software industry including in Open Source, and anyone involved in the industry needs to actually take it seriously because to do otherwise is to invite substantial liability.


You broke the site guidelines repeatedly in this thread, including by crossing into quite vicious personal attack. I realize that you were provoked, but you were also provoking.

I'm not going to ban you for this episode because everyone goes on tilt sometimes. But if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and do what it takes to recalibrate so that you're using the site as intended going forward, we'd be grateful.

Edit: actually you went to a real extreme:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47342355

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47333590

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47331531

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47331357

Surely you know that you can't do this on HN. "sociopathic piece of shit [...] Do the world a favor and remove yourself" isn't just bannable, it's 100x what we'd ban an account for.

You've been a good user generally* so I'm going to put this down to the unfortunate circumstances of this thread, but please don't do it again.

(* although you've broken the site guidelines at other times too, e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46156715, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46132102)


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