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Saying we have a good idea of how the brain works massively overstates the case...

We know how neurons fire. We do not know how a brain turns that into thought, meaning, intention, experience and on and on. That is not "pretty well understanding the brain", it's understanding some components and hand waving the thing we actually care about.


What I actually care about is how neural activity translates to behavior. And we have a good enough idea of that that we can design SSRI medicine to treat depression, or neurological tests to detect Alzheimer. As for experience we do know something and we are learning more with cognitive psychology, in e.g. priming experiments etc.

I feel like the search for consciousness is to psychology what the search for the Aether was for physics and chemistry. I think it is a worthwhile search, and maybe we will discover something important during that search, but we should also be prepared to find out that the thing might not exist, or it’s presumed properties are better explained with a different model.


SSRIs are not evidence that we understand how neural activity becomes behavior. They are evidence that you can perturb a system usefully without understanding it very well. That is exactly my point.

Respectfully, you are miles out of your depth here.


I don‘t see why you felt the need to insult me here. We are having a very common disagreement here, one which philosophers of science have been actively debating for several decades.

My point with the SSRI is that we know that serotonin is a chemical which incites certain neurons, and we know that a lack of activity of neurons in that general area in the brain is correlated with depression, so scientists were able to accurately predict that keeping the serotonin in that brain area for longer would increase brain activity there and decrease the level of depression.

This counts as pretty good understanding in my books at least. It teaches us very little about consciousness but my point is that it doesn’t have to. Just like Newton’s theory of gravity did not have to teach us about some deeper cosmological truth.


It's not an insult to suggest one is out of the depth on a topic, especially when it isn't one's field of expertise. You are giving the pop science explanation of various things.

Why did you feel the need to add it though?

> When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html


Nobody called anyone any name.

If you are going to quote rules, be bothered to read what was actually written. Your behavior ruins things, it doesn't make it better.


You don't think "Respectfully, you are miles out of your depth here." couldn't have just been left off?

To repeat: your behavior ruins things. Hall monitors aren't needed everywhere.

> Just like Newton’s theory of gravity did not have to teach us about some deeper cosmological truth.

I would also argue that Newton's theory of gravity was not a pretty good understanding of gravity.


It was still a good theory, and importantly the fact that it failed explain the nature of Aether had no effect on the quality of the theory.

i know the sun shows up every day and i know if i go inside my basement i dont get a tan. do i understand the sun?

Some schools of the philosophy of science would argue that you do. However you are describing is a very different acquisition of knowledge then what scientists did when developing SSRI medicine. We had to:

1. take pictures of brain activity under different conditions to see which regions were active during different moods,

2. sacrifice a bunch of mice to see which neuro-chemical activated which neurons,

3. predict that inhibiting the re-uptake of a specific neuro-chemical would activate that region,

4. predict that activating that region would decrease the level of depression

In your solar example you would have discovered melanin and its relation to your skin tone, and you would have studied the effects ultra-violate radiation has on your melanin levels. Then you would have predicted that staying out of the sun will not give you a tan.


Markets dictate the price. The terms "price" and "value" generally have actual meanings as used in financial markets. The idea that nothing can ever be mispriced (defined as price != value) is not really held by anyone serious.

Yeah, if price always equalled value, things like arbitrage, or speculative bubbles wouldn't be able to exist.

No, it's not. It's a stupid thing to say. Perfectly stupid assumption. There are 1000s of multi billion $ revenue companies operating and as a % the number that are fraudulent is close to zero, especially those public or looking to go public. There is always the possibility, but it's extremely naive to think it's likely.

This says more about you than the other person. Some people like giving good answers and are less concerned about being the source themselves.

I'll sometimes do the exact thing you are talking about. The reason is that I basically know the answer, but also know there is a nicer explanation to the question. I'll type in the question, often iterate a few times, get an answer that I basically knew but couldn't explain as clearly, and respond with it.

Humans haven't been "self sufficient" in 100,000 years. We've been building/using tools and specializing since the start. If you went back just a few hundred years some people (the version of you basically) would be profoundly sad you couldn't build your own house.


PE isn't really the issue. Some things just shouldn't be run for profit - doesn't matter who the owner is.

It's 100% this. Many people suck at prompting. It's likely that habits from search are ingrained. But in general some people are just so bad at it .

Prompting is just writing specification documents. A lot of people are very bad at this. I suppose that more to the point, a lot of people are just bad at writing.

This is probably correct. Perhaps prompting just brings out the very worst in specification.

According to Google, “there’s no wrong way to prompt”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bBfYX8X5aU&t=48s


No wrong way to [consume thing I sell that you'll consume more of if you do it poorly]

Ehhh, their incentive in their marketing is to get normal people to not be intimidated by the big bad AI.

Power users are always going to have to take the messaging companies send out to the masses with a grain of salt.


IDK if it's just me, but I also find Claude, whether it be the model or the harness, is a lot more "forgiving" of poor prompts than many of the open models

The value prop is just really really low.

Neurons? Go lower. Just atoms. Dumb, senseless atoms.

It's the mantra of the AI skeptics. Sounds so clever because it's technically true. Just like humans are just piles of oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen and carbon atoms, along with maybe a dozen or so other trace elements, none of which have any intelligence or will or desire to do anything - hence humans cannot possibly be intelligent or have any free will.

"study"... The replication crises in science has shown that most studies are total bs. So we probably don't want to go with them.

How does that differentiate from a boss or a company philosophy stating a 5 or 6 day week is better? With no reliable metric on better, other than ancedotal evidence. It's not as if it's repeatable experimentation.

It doesn't, but in the case where a boss or company say it, at least we know it's bs. Do you believe something because your company or boss says so?

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