Bull shit. Cletus is absolutely right. I'm a grumpy old Indian bastard in my mid-40s and I can find a job without breaking a sweat.
I'm sick and tired of these thinly-veiled-fascist stories that lay blame on Indians, Chinese, Arabs, Mexicans, Muslims, women, young people, martians etc, just because the dude that wrote the story is a big fat loser.
Learn new skills, keep networking, get with the program, learn to compete or deal with it. I'm no genius but my salary did not plateau at age 40.
First off, it's good to hear that I might be wrong.
But. The discussion here is about the general trend in the industry; nobody disputes that there are companies like Google (and probably Microsoft, Intel) which value experience and expertise. Do you think that across the board in our industry, older folks do not find it harder to get hired?
Third, when did you last switch jobs? I ask this only to find out if you really easily found a job, or you just think you might be able to find one.
In my experience, some older folks (over 40) seem to have this weird self-negating issue where they seem to lose confidence in themselves. I've known some truly badass programmers, stuck in shitty positions but don't move because of their own fear. So I think when you say "older folks find it harder to get hired", it becomes a self perpetuating kind of mindset.
The reality is that industry is dying to find people that can get shit done, as Cletus said. It doesn't fucking matter what you look like, your age, whether you have testicles or an ovary or neither like Data from STTNG.
My last gig was with a giant software company. BigCo management announced that my product would be canned in mid-Jan, effective March 31. Within 2 weeks of their announcement I had 4 opportunities (not counting internal opportunities) of which I chose the best one, starting in 10 days.
I'm not doing anything special, but life is good :-)
I thought the "keep skill sharp, network, deliver the goods" advice was just BS. But it seems to be good.
Yes, I did notice in almost all profiles in news articles of the older unemployed people that those individuals had let their skills seriously rust. Good to hear some first information.
While we're en the teritory of anecdoteism, let me add that as a manager, I am much more inclined to hire someone over 30. Not only do they tend to have more experience and thus be technically better skilled, but they also tend to be better at getting up in the morning, managing their time, communicating with colleagues and just generally act as grown ups. Managing teenagers gets old very fast.
> the USSR was tottering, India and China were struggling out from under the rotting hulks of, respectively, state socialism and Maoist lunacy, Major Medical was the merest notch on one’s paycheck, and young female office workers were wearing sneakers for their commute.
Cool. But this article was in no way racist or sexist, right?
I didn't read it that way. It's just stating a couple facts. In 1985, the Soviet Union was on the verge of collapse. I don't know about India or healthcare costs (I was 17), but China was recovering from Maoism (and it's fair to call it lunacy) and women who are expected to dress more formally for work still wear sneakers for commutes. Men would too if we had to use high heels. At least I would.
The racism may come from the concept citizens should have privileges and companies should not be able to hire the most effective workers available. I have mixed feelings about that because it can lead to unsustainable situations in either extreme. You have to issue immigrant work visas with care.
Neggers can neg me if you want. But the truth is the world is getting browner, yellower and more female.
If you can't deal with this because you're a grumpy old white man, I suggest that instead of writing little passive-aggressive blog articles, you should really go fsck yourself.
Well, it's getting statistically less female in the places that are brown and yellow, at least in South & East Asia.
Also, grumpy old white men are staggeringly over-represented in terms of responsibility for the technology "beachgeek" is most likely using. If he can't deal, I'd suggest he write something for Takimag that would explain...unless of course,
"fsck yourself" is the best he can do...
I think you are right, even though you got downvoted.
I'm not white. In fact I look like I could be the younger, nerdier brother of Mohamed Atta. I got off my green card and became a US citizen only in 2009 (After I was sure McCain wouldn't become President, and after I was certain they couldn't draft me :-)
My papers have always been in order, and I've never had a problem with any customs or border guards.
I think another issue could just be that Engineers aren't paid as much as MBAs. Which means we need to take that risk if we want to make the bucks.
Also its generally easier for us to take the risk. If you're an engineer making 120K its easier to take a paycut to 100k if you form a startup. If you're an MBA dude making 500K it just doesn't make sense to give up the Rolls etc and take a paycut to 100K.
Yes and no. Some engineers make ~200K to 300K, just for hacking code or selling it. Yes its true :-)
Some MBAs make ~140K out of school. EG McKinsey is known to make you work your tail off for very little $ comparatively speaking. But thats a golden stamp: 4 years out of McKinsey and you could be a SVP at some dumbass BigCo in Silicon Valley making ~500K. Why the hell would you want to give it up and join/form a startup?
The job market has been exerting a lot of downward pressure on MBA salaries in recent years, especially in the wake of the financial crisis. While it's still possible for a newly minted MBA grad to make somewhere close to $140k at McKinsey, or more at an investment bank, most MBA grads are falling moderately to significantly south of that figure.
And, as others have noted, the starting salaries are highly variable -- by school, by industry, and especially by job function. When people speak of "average" MBA salaries, they're usually speaking of a mean figure and not a median -- which is a bit silly, because the mean has traditionally been skewed very heavily by investment bankers.
At the end of the day, it's somewhat intellectually lazy to compare "MBAs" to "Engineers," as if both sets are relatively homogenous, or even normally distributed. The fact is, the designation "MBA" could mean so many different things. It could mean a nonprofit manager earning $65k, a brand manager earning $80k, a consultant earning $120k, or a private equity associate earning $200k+. To a certain extent, the same can be said of the broad category "Engineer" -- although there are so many subspecies of "Engineering" masters degrees, that selecting any one of them can yield a more homogenous set to work with.
In the long run, one thing seems abundantly clear: there are perhaps more MBAs entering the job market each year than the job market will actually bear. Conversely, there is a dearth of engineering talent, and a consequent seller's market in most engineering fields. That means engineering salaries will likely trend higher, while MBA salaries trend lower.
Probably. All of my information is from a conversation I had with a newly minted Wharton MBA circa 2007.
Also with just seeing how things operate in the Valley. I haven't seen McKinsey around a lot here though...which may be a good thing. Back in the tech bust years, they seemed to have just one piece of advice for every problem: outsource to India :-)
Earlier I had used dovecot+postfix for my personal email system. The advantages are that if you roll your own you can do whatever the heck you want.
Huge disadvantage (other than the fact that power, static IP etc are all your problem) is that a LOT of email providers will think you are spam.
Now I use SES for outgoing (for my app) and Gmail for incoming. Works a lot better. I remember reading that Gmail lets you write filters and what not as well, but I have not examined it in detail. I'm sure its do-able.
I'm sick and tired of these thinly-veiled-fascist stories that lay blame on Indians, Chinese, Arabs, Mexicans, Muslims, women, young people, martians etc, just because the dude that wrote the story is a big fat loser.
Learn new skills, keep networking, get with the program, learn to compete or deal with it. I'm no genius but my salary did not plateau at age 40.