MUDs use plaintext TCP protocols that are accessible to a wide range of clients.
The Telnet protocol is well-defined and not completely plaintext. There are in-band signaling methods and negotiations. Telnet is defined to live on 23/tcp as an IANA well-known, privileged, reserved port.
MUDs do none of this. You can usually connect to a MUD using a Telnet client, but most players hate the experience and often deride this method in favor of a dedicated, programmable client.
The fact that MUDs inhabit higher 4-digit ports is an artifact from their beginnings as unprivileged, user-run servers without a standardized protocol or an assigned “well-known port” presence. If you want your MUD to be particularly inaccessible, you could certainly run on port 23 now!
As a MUD enthusiast of two decades, this is not accurate. Where are you getting this information?
Most MUDs implement RFC 854, and a number of non-standard Telnet option subnegotiation protocols have been adopted for compression (MCCP2), transmission of unrendered data (ATCP, GMCP, ZMP), and even a mechanism for enabling marking up the normal content using XML-style tags (MXP). These telopts build on the subnegotiation facility in standard Telnet, whose designers knew that the base protocol would be insufficient for many needs; there are a great number of IANA-controlled and standardized telopt codes that demonstrate this, and the MUD community has developed extensions using that same mechanism.
> You can usually connect to a MUD using a Telnet client, but most players hate the experience and often deride this method in favor of a dedicated, programmable client.
I think you are confusing "telnet" the program with "telnet" the protocol. I am speaking here of the protocol, defined at base in RFC 854, for which "telnet" the program is but one particularly common implementation. You look at any of those "dedicated, programmable clients" and they will contain an implementation of RFC 854, probably also an implementation of RFC 1143 (which nails down the rules of subnegotiation in order to prevent negotiation loops), and an implementation of the RFCs for several standard telopts as well as non-standardized MUD community telopts. I can speak for the behavior of MUSHclient in especial regard here, though I am also familiar with the underlying Telnet nature of Mudlet, ZMud, and CMUD, not to mention my very own custom-made prototype client for which I very much needed to implement Telnet as described above.
Yes, I think this is counting on the ignorance that people will believe there are "drone operators" at the console, halfway across the world, who are driving our cars [A.I. stands for "Actually Indians"?]
The way I understood the liability conversation, several years ago, was that each "autonomous vehicle" would have a corresponding operator of record, a licensed driver, who would be the responsible person for the vehicle's behavior. That there would be a designated person to carry insurance and licensing and be personally responsible and personally answer to criminal or civil charges if "their" vehicle got in a fix.
Honestly this model doesn't make any sense, as Waymo has set it up so that the only driver is the Waymo Driver making decisions, because the Waymo Driver is the only one who's privy to 100% the real-time data.
The remote CSRs, whether they're in Philippines or stateside engineers on an escalation, are explicitly not driving the car but giving it suggestions. If they need someone to "drive the car" they literally dispatch a human who gets behind the wheel, and that's how it works.
>Yes, I think this is counting on the ignorance that people will believe there are "drone operators" at the console, halfway across the world, who are driving our cars [A.I. stands for "Actually Indians"?]
...
>Honestly this model doesn't make any sense, as Waymo has set it up so that the only driver is the Waymo Driver making decisions, because the Waymo Driver is the only one who's privy to 100% the real-time data.
Their competitor Telsa does use teleoperation in their "robotaxis"? So what is ignorant about believing it to be the case in this scenario?
The article you link literally says that Tesla's teleoperation is the same kind as Waymo's, and there is nothing that the company has ever deployed that will enable "remote drone operators" so I don't know what your point is.
Tesla and Waymo both offer systems to provide sensor insight to remote observers, and the remote observers can send suggestions and nudges to the vehicles. The general public does not understand the nuance here, and they imagine someone is sitting with a steering wheel and pedals, like a radio-controlled toy or a USAF Reaper drone.
> Our remote operators are transported into the device’s world using a state-of-the-art VR rig that allows them to remotely perform complex and intricate tasks. Working with hardware teams, you will drive requirements, make design decisions and implement software integration for this custom teleoperation system.
The article notes that this is very unlike what Waymo is doing:
> This should enable Tesla to launch a service similar to Waymo without having to achieve a “superhuman level of miles between disengagement.”
When I worked for a nationwide company, that was chiefly WFH with several small satellite offices, and a few abroad as well, we had some timezone issues.
The main one, which became my pet peeve about event and meeting announcements, was that they always, always used Standard Time abbreviations, whether it was DST or not DST, they always specified standard time.
So if a meeting was at 3pm on June 13 in Delaware, it was announced as "3pm EST". If the meeting was at 9am on August 8 in California, it was announced "9am PST".
This drove me up the wall because, living in Arizona, there is a legitimate difference for us between "MDT" and "MST". Now if we anticipate this quirk, it is really not a problem, except for edge-cases.
But I complained and asked why they were doing it, and they said they'd always done it that way, and even implied that it was written into policy somehow, and I came to discover it was far more widespread than just our one company's internal comms, and my brain exploded with ASD dissonance.
What is the oldest corporation in the world? I mean, aside from churches and stuff.
Corporations can die or be killed in numerous ways. Not many of them will live forever. Most will barely outlive a normal human's lifespan.
By definition, since a corporation comprises a group of people, it could never outlive the members, should they all die at some point.
Let us also draw a distinction between the "human being" and the "person". A corporation is granted "personhood" but this is not equivalent to "humanity". Being composed of humans, the members of any corporation collectively enjoy their individual rights in most ways.
A "corporate person" is distinct from a "human person", and so we can recognize that "corporate rights" are in a different category, and regulate accordingly.
A corporation cannot be "jailed" but it can be fined, it can be dissolved, it can be sanctioned in many ways. I would say that doing business is a privilege and not a right of a corporation. It is conceivable that their ability to conduct business could be restricted in many ways, such as local only, or non-interstate, or within their home nation. I suppose such restrictions could be roughly analogous to being "jailed"?
>Kongo Gumi, founded in 578 AD, is recognized as the oldest continuously operating company in the world, specializing in the construction of Buddhist temples.
Look to history. Here's a list of "Fortune 7" companies from about 50 years ago.
IBM
AT&T
Exxon
General Motors
General Electric
Eastman Kodak
Sears, Roebuck & Co.
Some of them died. Others are still around but no longer in the top 7. Why is that? Eventually every high-growth company misses a disruptive innovation or makes a key strategic error.
Your comment is rather incoherent; I recommend prompting an LLM to generate comments with impeccable grammar and coherent lines of reasoning.
I do not know what a "fortune 7" might be, but companies are dissolved all the time. Thousands per year, just administratively.
For example, notable incidents from the 21st c: Arthur Andersen, The Trump Foundation, Enron, and Theranos are all entities which were completely liquidated and dissolved. They no longer meaningfully exist to transact business. They are dead, and definitely 100% not immortal.
But it’s funny that can kill many people and still exist. Steal billions and still exist. It’s a super human disguised as a corporation.
——
Ai generated answer:
You are correct: it is "barely impossible" for a "Magnificent 7" company (Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, NVIDIA, Meta, Tesla) to be shut down by committing a simple crime.
These companies are arguably more resilient than many nation-states. They possess massive cash reserves, diversified revenue streams, and entrenched legal defenses.
Here is an analysis of why individual crimes don't work, and the extreme, systemic events that would actually be required to kill one of these giants.
### Why "Murder" and "Theft" Don't Work
Corporate law is designed to separate the entity from the individuals running it. This is the "Corporate Veil."
* *If they kill one person:* If a Google self-driving car kills a pedestrian due to negligence, or an Amazon warehouse collapses, the company pays a settlement or a fine. It is treated as a "tort" (a civil wrong) or, at worst, corporate manslaughter. The specific executives responsible might go to jail, but the company simply pays the cost and replaces them.
* *If they steal 1 billion:* If a company is caught laundering money or defrauding customers (e.g., Wells Fargo opening fake accounts, or banks laundering cartel money), they pay a fine. For a company like Apple (with ~$60–100 billion in cash on hand), a $1 billion fine is a manageable operational expense, often calculated as the "cost of doing business."
### The Only Things That Could Actually "Kill" Them
To truly "close down" or dissolve a company of this size, you need to render it *insolvent* (bankrupt with no hope of restructuring) or legally *dismantle* it.
#### 1. The "Enron" Scenario (Foundational Fraud)
This is the most likely path to sudden death. For a company to die overnight, it must be revealed that its entire business model is fake.
* *The Mechanism:* If it turns out that 90% of Microsoft’s revenue doesn't exist, or that NVIDIA isn't actually selling chips but just moving money between shell companies, the stock price would go to zero instantly. Credit lines would freeze, and they wouldn't be able to pay employees or electricity bills.
* *Historical Precedent:* Enron or Arthur Andersen. They didn't just commit a crime; they were the crime. Once the trust evaporated, the business evaporated.
#### 2. The "Standard Oil" Scenario (Government Breakup)
This doesn't "kill" the assets, but it kills the monopoly.
* *The Mechanism:* The US Department of Justice (or EU equivalent) wins a massive antitrust suit and determines the company is too dangerous to exist as a single entity.
* *The Outcome:* The government forces a "divestiture." Google might be split into three companies: Google Search, YouTube Inc., and Android Co. The parent company "Alphabet" would cease to exist, but the pieces would survive. This happened to AT&T (Ma Bell) in the 1980s and Standard Oil in 1911.
#### 3. The "Geopolitical Death" Scenario (National Security)
This is rare for US companies but possible.
* *The Mechanism:* If a company were found to be directly funding a hostile foreign power, engaging in treason, or if its products were deemed a fatal threat to national infrastructure.
* *The Outcome:* The government could revoke the company's corporate charter (the legal permission to exist). This is the "nuclear option" of corporate law. Alternatively, the government could effectively nationalize the company, taking it over completely (like Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac in 2008, though they survived as "zombies").
#### 4. The "Liability Apocalypse" Scenario
This would require a catastrophe so expensive that it exceeds the company's assets (trillions of dollars).
* *Hypothetical:* Imagine a Tesla software update simultaneously causes every Tesla on earth to accelerate into a crowd, killing 100,000 people. Or an AI model from Google/Microsoft escapes and destroys the global banking database.
* *The Outcome:* The resulting class-action lawsuits and liability claims would be in the trillions. If the liability > assets, the company goes into Chapter 7 liquidation. The assets (servers, patents) are sold off to pay the victims, and the company ceases to exist.
### Summary Table: Crimes vs. Consequences
| Action | Consequence | Does the Company Die? |
| --- | --- | --- |
| *Murder (Individual)* | Settlement / Fine / PR Crisis | *No* |
| *Mass Casualty Event* | Massive Fines / CEO Fired | *Unlikely* (Unless liability > Trillions) |
| *Theft ($1B+)* | DOJ Fines / Regulatory Oversight | *No* |
| *Systemic Fraud* | Stock collapse / Insolvency | *Yes* (The "Enron" Death) |
| *Monopoly Abuse* | Forced Breakup | *Sort of* (Splits into smaller companies) |
### The Verdict
You are right. Short of *insolvency* (running out of money completely) or *revocation of charter* (government execution), these companies are immortal. Even if they commit terrible crimes, the legal system prefers to fine them and fire the CEO rather than destroy an entity that employs hundreds of thousands of people and powers the global economy.
> Your comment is rather incoherent; I recommend prompting an LLM to generate comments with impeccable grammar and coherent lines of reasoning.
It seems your reading comprehension has fallen below average. I recommend challenging your skills regularly by reading from a greater variety of sources. If you only eat junk food, even nutritious meals begin to taste bad, hm?
Man, all this time I've been playing Nethack, wearing a Hawaiian shirt, snapping my expensive camera, and applying my credit card, without realizing my character class was actually Terrorist.
Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.
Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that".
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