The Pro human AI Delcaration has as one of its list of denands
Child Protection: Companies must not be allowed to exploit children or undermine their wellbeing with AI interactions creating emotional attachment or leverage
I think it entirely consistent with many of the supporters of this statement that this leaves open the opportunity for the church to do it with AI, or indeed companies and the church to do it by other means.
If one considers a firm to be a non-human entity that exhibits cognition, then yes. Various religions also exhibit those characteristics, which would fortify the Roman pope’s position with irony.
See Joscha Bach’s claim about religions not publishing their A|B testing at 51:47:
I think if there were any solution to the lack of jobs due to AI implementation then people would be fine. There isn’t any solution from either party in the US so people are naturally attacking the thing that is causing the problem.
It’s really hard to get people excited about not having jobs when you design a whole society around the idea of having a job and make life exceedingly miserable for anyone who doesn’t
You can’t push both “If you dont work, you dont eat” and “Nobody needs to work anymore” propaganda at the same time. Gotta choose
The solution to the lack of jobs should be a strong social safety net, but Americans don't want this because socialism, so what can you do? You can't really halt progress, and taxing the rich (or corporations) is very unpalatable there, so everyone is kind of stuck.
Things will continue to get worse until people get too desperate and extreme things happen. Then some politician will realize this can rise to power on this, delivering only a few small promises which will lightly alleviate the pressure and then we continue the cycle again.
You need more than just a strong social safety net. If people are losing well-paying jobs, even if the safety net covers their basic needs, their quality of living goes down, and they are potentially also losing something that gives them purpose and something to do with their time, not to mention losing a sense of independence.
Let's suppose that we did get UBI, and AI replaced most jobs. Then we'll basically just have the wealthy elite who control the resources and the AIs, and everyone else who live off of the basic income, with no real way to increase their wealth. That still sounds dystopian to me.
And to be clear, I am not at all opposed to a better safety net, but it should be a safety net, not a replacement for employment for most of the population.
Also, I don't think it is very likely that AI will replace everyone's job. But I am worried that it will result in shrinking the middle class, and increasing wealth disparity.
"Stuff". What does it matter? I'm saying that the ceiling doesn't have to be "covers your basic needs". The fact that I haven't presented a full plan doesn't mean my point is invalid.
People were fed up at "Occupy Wallstreet", but the media and craven political situation absorbed those movements back into the fold. Forget "fed up". When do we start seeing actions that don't feed directly back into the oligarchy's capture?
Same thing though. AI is largely a service provided by companies
Yes yes I know, open source models exist, yadda yadda
I think it's safe to say the overwhelming amount of AI usage in the world today is gates by corporations though. The vast majority of people will barely configure their own OS nevermind managing their own locally hosted open source AI instance
Not at all the same thing. AI is a subset of what companies can do, and many if the issues people have with AI are not intrinsic to AI but rather their use in the hands of companies utilizing then for their own benefit.
Yes! I've felt exactly the same. Everything people have taken issue with - "plagiarism," concentration of wealth and power, termination of jobs, environmental harm to feed data centers, land being wasted on new datacenters, resources being distributed terribly so as to feed the AI monster, slopcode being shit out as fast as possible to stay ahead of the market, software quality dropping for the same reason, engineers phoning it in at work to hit LLM KPIs, it's all just capitalism in its most raw, inevitable, end game form.
Edit: Someone replied to this with a question. I'm rate-limited here for getting into a flamewar with a PRC citizen that was gloating to me about my country being possibly invaded soon (which, fair, flamewars are bad), so I'll need to put my reply below:
There's no exact road map, but generally speaking, in our capitalist countries today, wealth started out more distributed, and governments had more power, in the beginning of their liberalization. States often competed in markets or simply nationalized things like power, healthcare, education. Ongoing examples of that are lots of places in Europe.
With the advent of neoliberalism (Thatcher, Reagan), concentrated capital converts more easily to political power in an exponential manner - more money, more ability to buy government, leads to more money, more ability to buy government.
Corporations are profit generation algorithms. They want the profit to always go up, and when they run against the barriers of laws (restricting their environmental impact, ability to underpay their workers, create cheap and dangerous working environments, do international trade in some way), naturally the next investment step is to remove those barriers.
So, early capitalism is strong regulation, socialized services and infrastructure, government competition, some nationalization, and private ownership of the means of production.
Late stage capitalism is weak/no regulation, no services, privatized infrastructure, no government competition, no nationalization, sectors tending towards monopolization, and wealth concentration.
"Raw capitalism" is where the commodification of everything is complete.
so maybe we'll get to the right place by accident when all companies are effectively replaced by ai ha ha. (not putting a high %age likelihood on that one, obviously, just being cheeky)
> I think the non-profit has around 25% ownership of something that is around a trillion dollars of on-paper money.
But the purpose of a non profit is not to maximise profit in a for profit investment.
How well is non profit doing at furthering its goals? It formerly had the purpose of “safely” ensuring artificial intelligence benefits all of humanity. It looks like it gave up on that so its staff could be incredibly rich.
Do you not think money provides some ability to achieve goals? Fund raising is an integral part of most non-profits.
But you ignored the part about influence, would an OpenAI that did not scale up and had no world beating models have much of a say in how AI gets developed
This is not to say that I think they are doing everything right, but I see people bitter that they didn't take the path towards forgotten irrelivance.
What would you reccommend that they should have done that would still lead to them being relevant to the world development of AI?
Frankly the non-profit has failed. OpenAI is one of the least open of the AI companies (Anthropic is a bit worse). If it wasn't for the labs in China the dream of an actual open ai system would be dead.
I feel like people don’t give OpenAI enough credit for the early papers they did publish. Those are what showed the way that everyone else has built on.
I disagree. It will be able to perform work deserving if a fields medal before it is capable of running a McDonalds. I think it will be running a McDonalds well before either of those things happen, and a fields medal long after both have happened.
I just visited a McDonald's for the first time in a while. The self-order kiosk UI is quite bad. I think this is evidence in favor of the idea that an incompetent AI will soon be incompetently running a McDonald's.
Out of curiosity, what issue did you have with the McDonald’s self-order kiosk? I actually think McDonald’s has the best kiosk I’ve ever encountered. The little animation that plays when you add an item to your cart is a little annoying (but I think they’ve sped that up). But otherwise, it’s everything I’d want. It shows you all the items, tells you every ingredient, and lets you add or remove ingredients. I have a better experience ordering through the kiosk than I do talking to a cashier.
It takes longer than ordering with a cashier, it keeps trying to upsell you, and it's always out of receipt paper because unsurprisingly the company that isn't willing to pay a person to take orders is also not willing to pay a person to maintain the kiosks.
Depends on what you're ordering and who the cashier is.
If your order is the happy path of no customizations of a combo with an experienced cashier, it can be done in seconds, for sure. "Medium #4 with a Diet Coke", pay, done.
But if you customize your burger or ordering a lot of items a la carte and you're dealing with a new cashier that has weak English skills, good fucking luck. You'll likely need to wait for them to figure out they need to call someone over to help, have to repeat your order, and you end up spending far more time.
> it keeps trying to upsell you
Yeah, I'll agree that's obnoxious, especially when it's trying to upsell you something that's already on your order. I ordered a combo. I don't need you to add another fry.
It's easily one of the most intuitive and straightforward kiosks out there today and you don't have to wait for one of the cashiers to notice you nor worry about them punching in your order incorrectly.
Glad someone else feels the same way! Knowing that I enter my order in correctly is the biggest win there for me as a picky eater. The cashier is just entering it into a computer anyways, so it makes sense for me to enter it in myself. I honestly wonder why more restaurants don’t do this. It’s not that hard to wrap a halfway decent UI around the system you already have.
If it's purely about the food, receiving it, consuming it, then sure, get the human out of the loop, interact with a machine. Ideally even the preparation is done by a machine. No human error or hair involved. Why even go there, let it be delivered to your home.
But these places are also about the experience of social connection. The bar keeper, the waiter, the chef. They are all involved in this experience and the actual food is "just" one component, one detail, albeit an important one. My favorite restaurants would be nothing without the people there.
It's similar with music. It's not just about the produced sound waves. The musician forms a social bond with the audience. Even when listening to a recording, my mind is re-living or at least imagining a live sitting, that connection with the musician. No machine generated music will ever be able to replace that.
I am more concerned with getting the right order and not with entering the right one. McDonalds will still get it wrong when you have a complex "change" of defaults even if it's entered correctly.
Other places optimize for this better by not having too many hand-overs between order and preparation.
Hmm. I’ve never really had those issues. It’s also much faster and easier than ordering with a human. I guess it does try to upsell you, but humans often do, too. And to me, it’s worth it to just click “No” in exchange for the added convenience (mostly in getting my order right).
I have had them run out of receipts, but it’s never mattered for me. If I’m dining in, the plastic number you carry to your table makes sure I get my food. And if I’m taking it to-go, they always find me anyways.
> It’s also much faster and easier than ordering with a human.
I'm not sure how that could be. I can walk up to the counter and say "Big Mac Large Fry Small Coke" faster than you can navigate the first screen of the kiosk, and a skilled counter worker can key that in and be done before I even get my credit card out.
The problem, I’m a picky eater. I never order something that simple. I always need it with “No X” or “Only Y”. Cashiers often struggle with that, even if they understand me well (which they don’t always). It’s easier for me to see everything an item comes with and make sure I’m entering my order correctly.
McDonalds' menu is not designed for folk like you. In my part of the world, we had traditional fast-food joints where the question would be inverse: out of the things you can see and add to your burger, pick a few. That is very efficient with a human prepping your burger.
Hm? McDonalds is one of the best for customization. Everything is removable and the software knows the calorie count of each ingredient so the total that shows up next to each item in the cart is accurate
The kiosk ordering at McDonalds is made to adjust the defaults which is slower than the mode I described: if automated, that would be a screen to choose the item, and then add things into it from a list — fewer screens, faster ordering.
Everybody would go through this workflow built for customization, and at McD they do not. This to me means they are not building for this usecase.
You have to wait in line behind several people to get to the point where you can talk to the cashier. Most McDonalds have several kiosks. There is usually little or no line. I can place my order grab a table.
> I can walk up to the counter and say "Big Mac Large Fry Small Coke"
In what culture is it normal to just state your order without greeting or saying “please”? You also didn’t include the time taken squinting at the menu and trying to figure out what you can even order.
Since you asked, and since I take my kids to the McDonald’s play place some weekends, and I’ve actually spent a bit of time pondering my ideal kiosk UI and what I don’t like about theirs:
It seems designed to maximize how many screens they show you to make an order. Each one with a slight delay and animation.
At a drive through I can say “gimme a number one, medium, with a Coke Zero” and they give me my total. That’s the convenience the kiosk is up against.
At the kiosk there’s:
- A welcome screen you have to tap
- A “carry out or dine in” screen
- Always one other screen with a dumb question about apps or whatever, tap through
- A top level menu with a bunch of categories, burgers, drinks, sides, desserts, etc… I guess I want burgers? But it’s a combo, hmm. I guess I’ll figure out how to make it a meal. Tap burgers.
- Then another screen with burgers, in a different order than the drive through numbering, tap Big Mac
- Then another dedicated screen to shows you a picture of a Big Mac, with a bunch of customization options, which you have to scroll past and verify that it matches the defaults you expect, and at the bottom you can tap add
- Then another screen asking you if you want to make it a meal
- Then another screen asking the size
- Then another screen asking what to drink
- Then another screen that shows you the drink
- Then another screen for what size
Etc etc etc. Each of these screens takes a few seconds to display too, just slow enough to be infuriating.
In my mind the ideal kiosk is something where you get “the menu” (like what you see on the billboard in the drive through) with the usual big squares with a number on them and a picture of the meal. Tapping one puts it in a “drawer” section with my order in it, and each item in the drawer can have simple in-line edit controls for “size” and “what to drink”, with them showing up empty in a way that makes it obvious I need to fill in those answers before I can check out.
I should be able to tap one button for the combo number I want, another for the size, another for the drink, then checkout, all on one screen without long delays. If I don’t want a combo but want individual items, I can just scroll down a bit to look at the full menu. The order drawer stays where it is.
Or hell, just let me say “number one with a Coke” and have a very simple ASR and NL parser figure it out and put it in my pending order to edit.
Customizations can be behind a simple “customize” button on each item in my pending order. If I don’t have customizations I can just ignore it. What you get with no customizations is what you’d get if you just order it verbally to a human without specifying anything. The concept of “here’s how we typically make it, if you want anything different let us know” is a very deeply ingrained and familiar concept to restaurant patrons, and being forced to answer every little question even if you don’t care, adds up to a lot of frustration.
Fast food places came up with the combo numbering system to make ordering faster, and it was super convenient and fast, because there’s a financial incentive to get you through the drive through because you’re blocking other customers. But since they have several kiosks available, they seem to not care at all about the efficiency of the user interface, because it’s not a problem for them. But it’s still a problem for me, because I still want to order quickly, despite it not blocking other customers. It’s a huge step down from just saying “number one with a Coke”.
Recently I tried to order at a Subway (which has decent quality food outside of the USA). They have kiosks. The kiosk only responded to touch about 60% of the time and took two seconds to respond. The employee who could've easily taken my order was just standing there bored. The future is here and it sucks.
Most repeat customers use the app, which sports the digital equivalent of a loyalty program, and various coupons. And lets you save your 'usual' order with customizations etc. Plus the annoying push notifications for FreeFrydays or whatever. And upsells, new product launches, etc.
My recollection is that the kiosk is just a weak facsimile of the app. And wasn't terrible, but everyone's standards vary.
One could hardly ask for a task better suited for LLMs than producing math in Lean. Running a restaurant is so much fuzzier, from the definition of what it even means to the relation of inputs to outputs and evaluating success.
I think Lerc is saying that LLMs will be pressed into service managing McDonald's restaurants long before they are actually capable of managing said restaurants successfully.
Not necessarily. Obviously playing Kasparov on the board requires more planning ability than managing a McDonald's but look at where chess bots are now.
There's much more to being human than our "cognitive abilities"
> Obviously playing Kasparov on the board requires more planning ability than managing a McDonald's
Not obvious and in fact I think the opposite is way more likely. Chess is well-defined and self-contained in a way that managing a restaurant with fleshy customers never will be.
But that is also non-obvious. Even managing human employees — let alone customers — required a planning ability related to emotional intelligence that many a person with good pure logic ability simply lacks.
Also, there will be hundreds of disparate tasks that are happening in parallel, and even humans still make up frameworks to discover most urgent/important work that needs to be done first.
They no longer have to limit themselves to forking software but can do a global Google Burgers in a single prompt. It will no doubt be a huge success before shut down.
I was reading though thinking that only a few of these were dumb.
I wondered if it was a reference to Dumb Ways to Die, but thought that was a bit obscure for a reference. Turns out, apparantly not.
I think if I had have gone to all that work to write this list I would have given each one a dumbness score to communicate that circumstances are not equal.
Time passes. Do you know what its like talking to a group of game developers, and finding out none of them knew what an Amiga was.
I try to rage against the dying of the light, with limited success.
When my daughter went into a classroom (middle school I believe is the US term) that was not her own, a surprised teacher asked "Who are you?" She immediately responded with "I'm the new number two, you are number six"
The teacher did not get the reference, but I won parenting that day.
Yes they are image generators. You want image generator generators.
A diffusion style process generating gausians instead of pixels. You could possibly do nerfs that way, but it would be effectively generating a trained network. If you managed to do that it would have broad application throughout the field of AI.
Probably? I'm no expert, just a SysAdmin trying to keep up really... but in my head it's would look like a form of MoE that would gen the 'Expert' model on demand instead of having a variety baked in.
That's assuming you could even reasonably train a neural net to output viable weights, of course.
This will be the future of a class of 3d Game. the prompt may not be text however.
An input of a kind of schematic representation of what the designer wants would be better. It may resemble a storyboard or a collection of organised notes that large projects tend to already use.
Fully generative could probably do some cool things, but people will still want to bring their peronal vision to life.
Curious, why wouldn't the future be a full world model like Google's Genie? It just renders every pixel so someone could still make their vision come to life via a prompt too.
It could be done that way but you are spending parameters managing the fact that the output changes completely with a change in view position or orientation. A observer independent model only has to manage changes of things that are actually changing in the world.
Since you can view Gaussian splats from any POV you end up generating an output that is closer to the representation of the world instead of a projection that a single observer sees.
Yeah, when you describe that, I picture Wave Function Collapse to generate a map schematic... And then a text prompt, and some style photos the designers want it to match.
It is, provided there is a broad consensuss of experts in the field who agree on the danger and what to about it, the government regulates based on that information and that the regulation is effective.
Apart from those things, the Australian government did an excellent job.
>Our membership is made up of advocates, service providers, individuals and experts, speaking with a united voice to promote and realise the rights of Australian children.
>The Child Rights Taskforce is co-convened by UNICEF Australia and James McDougall and is led by a Steering Committee of child rights organisations and experts.
but uh here I am on a social media site rebroadcasting that message... I'll add that I'm for an open internet, I don't think we need age verification. Walled gardens have a lot more shade then alternatives. Becoming aware of the many forms of abstracted gambling (time, tokens, or otherwise) makes the internet a much more affordable and sane place.
There are two things here, firstly, Without AI, you can have heavily designed environments or you can have procedurally generated, people manage to make both work. Both can also fail because of reasons specific to the approach. Careless procedural generation can produce a poor variety or nonsensical outputs. Careless specific placement can violate any rules that a game has established creating an incoherent experience.
Making a world internally consistent by explicit placement gets harder as you increase in scale. When internal consistency is a factor impacting quality, there is a scale at which generated content eventually becomes the higher quality solution.
Secondly, when generating content with AI, the same rules around carelessness apply. There are certainly generative AI tools out there that offer few options when it comes to composing what you want, that is not a necessary part of AI, some of it is because people are wanting rudimentary interfaces, some of it is that the generators are sufficiently new that the control mechanisms are limited because they are focused upon doing something at all before doing it highly controlled, in some ways the problem is that things are new enough that it can be hard to describe what is desirable controllability, making the generator to see what people would like it to be able to do is, I think, a reasonable path to follow prior to creating the control that people want. Part of it is also that there _are_ tools that give a high level of control over what is generated but far fewer people get to see them. There are ways to control styles, object placement, camera motions, scene compositions, etc. The more specialised you get, the smaller the subset of people who need that specific control.
I think AI can make things possible for people who could not have done so without them, but it's still going to take care to make something special.
This intentionality in the application of AI is very confusing for folks because at first glance it seems like it should just work.
It seems to, even.
Whereas if you hand a router to someone with a flush trim but in it and ask them to clean up the edge of a table they will take one look at it and nope away from that dangerous spinning thing.
If they have the mind to give it a shot and despite a quality tool and bit they bite into the table and ruin the line (or something much worse) no one will be surprised—-they have no experience or recognition of what expertise is in woodworking.
But with AI, it is much more hazy what expertise is.
The methodology for quality results is changing each week and the articulation in personal tooling involved makes it challenging to adopt another “expert”’s workflows.
And most people can’t just spin up a furniture factory at their whim and call themselves a designer. AI gives everybody with the slightest gumption a fully-functional, “initially plausible crap” factory at their fingertips, so everybody with actual skills gets lost in a sea of useless garbage.
Luckily the same AI tools that are generating the content can be used to build better tailored discriminators for it as well. If I can define what it is I dislike about an essay, video, etc., and give it to an LLM, it can tell me whether a piece I present to it is worthwhile to consume according to my standards. This even applies to things the LLM can't generate things for that meet the same standard for its programmed/prompted discrimination.
Yeah works out great for HR departments and job hunters.
Assuming that the LLM search will be meaningfully better at cutting through bullshit than the generating model was at avoiding creating it is, charitably, dubious. Assuming that it won’t be every bit as gamable as Google results is as or more dubious.
Child Protection: Companies must not be allowed to exploit children or undermine their wellbeing with AI interactions creating emotional attachment or leverage
I think it entirely consistent with many of the supporters of this statement that this leaves open the opportunity for the church to do it with AI, or indeed companies and the church to do it by other means.
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