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Right. Even 15 years ago, it wasn't at all surprising.


It was the original title.


> Are they really "so complicated", or is it just a large amount of options, many of which might actually be ignorable for the task you're doing, that contribute to such an impression of complexity?

Apache's library called it HSSF, Horrible Spreadsheet Format. You make the call.

:)


I have literally used it for YEARS and never knew what HSSF meant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_POI was a fun read

HPSF (Horrible Property Set Format) HSMF (Horrible Stupid Mail Format) DDF (Dreadful Drawing Format)


Amusing, but I also have the feeling that it's difficult for Java developers to appreciate the benefits of a binary format because the language doesn't make it easy to work with them. XML, on the other hand...


Part of Apache POI, IIRC.

It stood for:

"Poor Obfuscation Implementation".


Please stop with the razors. Someone will get cut.


I'm not sure if this will work as it is currently, and here's why:

https://github.com/boyter/searchcode-server/blob/master/LICE...

Clearly shows that it is released under the Fair Source License, version 0.9 with no mention of license termination and restricted rights. It is NOT free.

https://github.com/boyter/searchcode-server/blob/master/READ...

then states:

'After the following date 27-August-2019 you may choose to use this software, version "1.2.3" or "1.2.4" under the GNU General Public License Version 3 with terms specified at https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.txt'

This is so wrong. Not that it is GPL, but this both contradicts the license and states that you "may choose to use this software..." under the GNU GPLv3. Also, the missing comma after "1.2.4" is a mistake in grammar.

I'd say, as-is, you should consider this licensing unreliable. Yes, he posted in his blog stating his intention, but as it is now, it would appear that if a ruling had to be made on the actual license, it could very well be that the only valid license is the one in LICENSE.txt.

Since that is unclear, though, if I were a user and cared about the license, I'd get a good lawyer to figure this out before making any assumptions.

And, I would suggest that he get a lawyer to help craft the required changes to his license.


Dual licensing happens all the time, often with GPL and some other, more restrictive license. He clearly states that until X date, you may only use the code under the Fair Source License. After X date, you may choose which of the two licenses you would like to use.

There's no conflict in adding another license, it's his code, and the license and his directives dictate how people can copy and distribute it. Nor does the fact that there's only one license in LICENSE.txt really mean anything. README.txt is clear about the dual license in its "Licence" section.


What about the following text in README:

'If you are building from source then you get no support and must work within the restrictions specified of the fair source licence (see LICENSE.txt for details). To purchase support see https://searchcode.com/product/#downloadlinks'

And what about:

'Use of this software is governed by the Fair Source License included in the LICENSE.TXT file'

No period there at the end, but that seems to indicate to use the LICENSE.TXT.

And then, even worse:

'In order to deal with the case of my death or this software becoming abandoned it has a time-bomb where the licence will change exactly 3 years after the publish date of a version release. This means that if version 1.0.0 was released on 1 July 2010 then it can be taken using the listed alternate licence on 2 July 2013. This licence, version and time is all specified below.'

There is no definition of what 'software becoming abandoned' (Which 'software'? What does 'abandoned' mean?). There is no definition of what 'it can be taken' means. The example date is one day more than three years and the dates given as examples could confuse the date intended for expiry. There is no definition of what should be used as the 'publish date of a version release'.

While these things may seem common sense to a developer, they should have a clear legal interpretation.


> clear legal interpretation

In US, those only exist from precedent. Which means after going to court and getting a ruling, often several times as different courts will rule differently. Eventually being normalized by supreme court.

The US legal system is not well-speced or deterministic for new concepts.


You're picking nits. The intent is clear from multiple reproducible sources. For there to be any issue, the developer (or an assignee) would have to file suit, at which point it would be trivial to demonstrate that it was clearly communicated that the old versions assumed a second license. The copyright holder would have a very steep uphill battle to show otherwise.


Actually following that time frame I will be updating the fork to relicense to avoid this issue. I had hoped that the intent mentioned was clear enough to avoid any issues.

If someone with legal chops wanta to provide a nice legal way of saying that feel free to do so and I will provide due credit.


Great! Might try contacting FSF. They could help you get it sorted:

http://www.fsf.org/


> This feels like the most important US presidential election I've ever witnessed, and I want to do whatever I can to make sure we're all involved.

Same for me. It's also the nuttiest US presidential election I've ever witnessed.

According to HuffPost Pollster, Trump has an unfavorable rating of 58%, Clinton has an unfavorable rating of 56%.

With numbers like that, neither should be in the race, imo.

But, the only other two candidates either risk Clinton being elected and don't know what/where Aleppo is (Gary Johnson) or are wanted on trespassing and mischief charges and risk Trump getting elected (Jill Stein).

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/gary-johnson-aleppo-22...

http://abc7chicago.com/news/jill-stein-appears-in-chicago-wh...


Regarding the unfavorable rating - it's here to stay. IMO, US politics is so polarized at this point - the other side is always going to be viewed as deceptive and lying (as opposed to having a different viewpoint or an incompatible solution).

The only significant point here is that it's over 50%.


How are either of those negatives? The entrenched parties would have had a list of approved questions to avoid such a mistake, they are all humans and can't be expected to call up every detail of any issue at will. And trespassing/mischief would probably make Stein the most law abiding candidate in generations.


> The entrenched parties would have had a list of approved questions to avoid such a mistake

Not knowing Syria is a huge problem for an incoming president.

Having a warrant out is not something that I would take lightly in someone who aims to be commander-in-chief.


He knew about Syria, he didn't immediately associate the word Aleppo with the Syrian situation. He just finished discussing Nader in 2000, the next question could have been about anything and parsing all your knowledge is not an easy task.

I care more about the crimes committed than whether the justice system decides to prosecute.


Did anyone notice that it is 0.4 percent of Japan's population?

As of 2010, about 2 percent of the U.S. adult population have a severe form of social phobia and have trouble leaving their house, according to the National Institutes of Mental Health: http://www.livescience.com/16216-outgoing-shy-personality-na...

It's not coming to the west. It's more here than there.

I don't know about it being the fault of the education system, though.


The number is limited to people aged 15-39. I can't figure out what percent that is, maybe someone with a wolfram alpha pro account can do it:

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+japan+be...

Also, having trouble leaving the house vs: The Health, Labor and Welfare Ministry defines hikikomori as people who have stayed at home for at least six months without going to school or work, or going out to interact with others.


Yes, they're not measuring the same things. "having trouble leaving the house" != "never leaving their room"


You just have to phrase it correctly: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+japan+ag...

It's 4.75% according to alpha based on a 2010 estimate.


I think that's the 15-19 age group...


Ah, you're right I didn't look closely at the results. derp


It's about 45 million people aged 15-39, which would mean it's still under 2%


I think that although SAD and being a recluse are linked, they aren't the same thing. It's interesting that the reported amount of people with SAD in the US is so high compared to Japan [0] so I also did a little searching in Japanese. It seems that because of the availability and access to psychological treatment in Japan[1], the reported number of cases of SAD is possibly 5 times lower than the number given (0.7%)

[0] WHO World Mental Health Survey Consortium: 2004

[1]http://pax.moo.jp/sadjournal/2014/01/24/日本人は社会不安障害にならない?/


The world outside simply is hell. You can have it.


>The world outside simply is hell.

You'd be surprised.


I wonder if the social phobia is equivalent in both populations, but that Japan is (however it may be) more accepting of aversion to a social life?


This implies that hikkikomori are accepted in Japanese society. They are definitely not. Which is part of the reason for their social withdrawal.


I meant in the sense that perhaps parents, with children displaying early signs of social phobia, are more accommodating. Are families too enabling of behaviour that can become entrenched?


I mean, what are they supposed to do, kick their children out of the house?

In the end, the genesis of Hikkikomori's reclusion is their feeling of having failed at life. They can't deal with society's expectations of them, so they withdraw from it completely. There's not much parents can do to change that feeling of failure.

It's not really a distinctly Japanese phenomenon. I'm sure you can find just as many young recluses in every developed country. Japan just found a cute term for it, that's all.


Gentle prodding.

"Hey, we're going out to hike a trail. It's only for the morning. Please come along with us."

"Dad's going to the baseball but has no one to go with him. Can you go too so he doesn't get lost?"


"as those who have shut themselves in their homes for at least seven years accounted for about 35 percent of the total"

The US measure of severe phobia is one thing, but the cutoffs being used for the phenomenon in Japan are way stricter.


But what percentage of country's youth?

I imagine it will turn into something like 3%.


I'm an introvert and tend toward reclusion, but still think that reclusion can be bad. We should interact with others to help them and to be helped IRL.


First, I learned a lot from this. But, here's some light criticism:

1. Joel saying "I didn't understand that question" and then moving on might have been succinct and practical, but it was just not a good reflection of him.

2. He acts like R1C1 mode is the only way handle relative references for the first 13 minutes. One of the first things I learned in Excel was $ to pin a reference to row or column in what he calls "baby mode". I think it's not babyish to use $ which is more succinct; you can edit the formula and see the calculated value right away. It seemed like he waited a long time to talk about that.

3. "Almost none of which you can do in Google spreadsheets" at 18:15. Sounds so pro-Microsoft, right? Yet, if you look, he's obviously using OS X, which is surprising to me, because MS Office has historically sucked on OS X compared to its Windows counterpart, and it's been incomplete: https://9to5mac.com/2016/01/21/windows-mac-ipad-microsoft-of... even though, yes, it's a lot better than it used to be. Also, Google docs is free.


He's presenting this to his company. I don't think this video was originally intended for mass consumption, but I am glad it was made available.

So this is the CEO presenting to a group of people who know him and his presentation style, I think at that point much of the stuff you're complaining about can be thought of as humor or house style, especially when you consider that Joel worked at Microsoft on Excel. Context matters.


As someone who watched the live stream of the original presentation from the Stack Overflow lunchroom I can confirm that the video is missing some context. Definitely a bit of house style and a throw back to some old school memes, but overall an informative and humorous training session that I am glad was made public.

Joel usually gives great presentations, and recently he even started personally editing our internal company update videos (and complaining when we don't show appreciation by up voting them :-) because the first one was a bit dry.


> 1. Joel saying "I didn't understand that question" and then moving on might have been succinct and practical, but it was just not a good reflection of him.

He's presenting in the style of You Suck at Photoshop, a series of Photoshop videos in the same style.


> He's presenting in the style of You Suck at Photoshop, a series of Photoshop videos in the same style.

In fact, I think he directly quotes YSAP at 25:34

https://youtu.be/0nbkaYsR94c?t=1534

I'd have to find the right YSAP episode, but I'm 90%+ sure that Donnie says something extremely similar.


At the beginning he says something like "this is basic to intermediate, but for you this is going to be stupid hard", which is from the first (?) YSAP, "Distort, Warp, & Layer Effects" [1].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_X5uR7VC4M


Reading your single comment (and watching the linked clip) was very much worth my time! I never before realized that you can address Excel cells via a symbolic name instead of row/column-wise. That is very cool and probably very basic. Now I'm going to watch the rest of Joel's video!


Regarding point 1, blowing off that question was an inside joke. I get why it comes off as dismissive and rude without context - it was originally an internal presentation - but the asker was Michael Pryor. He's Joel's co-founder at FogCreek and the CEO of Trello. It was playful banter between very senior peers.


As mentioned elsewhere, he was a Program Manager for Excel. His story ("My First BillG Review") about spearheading the effort to bring VBA into Excel is a great read:

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/06/16.html


Thanks for sharing the link. I thoroughly enjoyed reading his blog. Thanks again!!


4. All the stuff he starts describing at 18:40 Google Sheets will actually do just fine except the Growth Trend bit on the heights.

5. 33:25 - Nope, that works in Google Sheets too. Just like Excel.

6. OK that table shit was cool though. Sheets can't do that.


This video is a year old; Google sheets has notably improved in that time.


I'm fairly confident that points #4 and #5 both worked a year ago. I guess I can't be 100% sure, but I'm preeeeety sure.


tables is one of my most sorely missed features from excel. I'm really surprised it's still lacking in sheets


It's missing everywhere. Sheets, libreoffice, office for Mac, anything... Ok, office for Mac does have tables, but I keep running into issues when referencing them - some values just end up as error until you change the source (even to the same value)


Google Sheets is still painful in many areas. Cell/chart/pivot formatting is a big one.then there are little things like the pivot table interface. Sheets has come a long way but when I need to be efficient and effective, I roll up my sleeves and dive into Excel.


I remember watching this video a while ago and it is super basic. I can assure you that there are great many things that google sheet lacks.


Ya I know. Was just pointing out that Google Sheets isn't quite as basic as people think.

It really should be better though. I wish Google would commit to it more.


Does it have array formulas now?


Agreed on the R1C1 mode. Its very helpful to explain "this is what is actually going on behind the curtain", which is likely why he stresses it so much when speaking with developers. However, its really unnecessary in the 'real world'.


>Also, Google docs is free.

And so is Office Online. Always has been, six years now.

http://office.microsoft.com/online/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Online


I am curious about the reason for the repeated potshots at Google Sheets. The way he talks about it he's playing the taunts for laughs, but usually there's an interesting story or grain of truth behind something like that.

I do notice the big google watermark in the top left of the video so at first I thought maybe he was doing this presentation for some google engineers and playfully poking fun, but the description says this is a presentation he gave for the benefit of his companies Fog Creek and Trello. So I don't know.


Joel worked for Microsoft on the Excel team so it's probably a combination of professional pride and playfulness.


The Google watermark is there because this was recorded using Hangouts on Air.


You know, how google walked into the whole GIS and Geography business and clicked its heels together once - closing the shop. I guess the very same thing is going on here- wounded pride. We fought and worked to make this happen- you can not give it away for free.


Is that really true though? As far as I know ESRI is still alive and doing quite well.


I think the gp means that Google came in gis, looked around and decided 'nope, nothing for us here', and left? I mean, there's google maps, but that's it - while widely used, not exactly special.


Google Sheets isn't running large chunks of the world economy yet. Maybe he'll stop mocking it when it is.


Office for Mac was certainly a third-class citizen for a long time. Thankfully its improved quite a lot Office 2016 for Mac, and they are somewhat comparable now. That is until you have a MSSQL connection in your Excel sheet... it was surprising to find people that do that.


I am still waiting for tables in Outlook 2016 to be returned.


The big win in Google spreadsheets is that functions are nearly universally composable. Unlike Excel.


What does that mean?


In google spreadsheets I can do something like:

=count(filter(a1:z30>0))

where in Excel I'd have to make an extra column to store the result of the filter, and then count those.


You can use array formulas to achieve the same result in Excel.


Re 3: he does say (at some point in the latter half of the video, after the OS X beach ball spins for several seconds when he tries to do something very simple) that Excel for OS X is a lot less stable than for Windows.


I think he's wrong on the R1C1 mode. At least in the latest version of excel on mac, you can observe this behavior:

1) In cell A, reference cell B

2) Cut (not copy) cell C and paste it over cell B

3) Observe cell A throwing a #REF! error

To be concrete, type 10 in cell A1, then type `=A1` into cell A2. A2 now shows 10. Now click cell B1, cmd-x to cut, then move the cursor to A1, cmd-v to paste. Now cell A1 is empty and cell A2 shows #REF!

This will not change if you use the R1C1 mode.

So internally it's neither R1C1 nor is it A1. Internally it's a reference to the cell object directly.


I just tried this. In "baby mode" it does what you say. In R1C1 mode, A2 becomes 0 when the blank cell B1 is cut/pasted to A1. So in my experience (Windows 10, Excel 2016), R1C1 references the cell, not the object, whereas baby mode references the object.


Wasn't historically MS Office first to appear on Macs?


Yes. Word and Excel were ported to Mac OS before Windows even existed to be ported to, and PowerPoint was a Mac-exclusive product created by another company.


> there will never be another Rock genre in terms of popularity

That is purely based on your recent experience, and I believe it to be short-sighted.

As an example, Classical Period music was popular roughly between 1730 and 1820. That's 90 years- in comparison, Rock is only about 61 years old.

Rock will no doubt continue to influence future musicians even when it is no longer the predominant form of popular music. But, assuming history repeats itself, which it tends to do, Rock probably won't be the last popular form of music spanning several decades.

And I believe what will replace Rock will be some form of electronic pop.


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