Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | more Drunk_Engineer's commentslogin

Oh man, if only it were that simple. A floorplanner has to guestimate what the P&R tools are going to do with the initial layout. That can be very hard to predict -- even if the floorplanner and P&R tool are from the same vendor.


I have not read the latest paper, but their previous work was really unclear about metrics being used. Researchers trying to replicate results had a hard time getting reliable details/benchmarks out of Google. Also, my recollection is that Google did not even compute timing, just wirelength and congestion; i.e. extremely primitive metrics.

Floorplanning/placement/synthesis is a billion dollar industry, so if their approach were really revolutionary they would be selling the technology, not wasting their time writing blog posts about it.


Like when Google wasted its time writing publicly about Spanner?

https://research.google/pubs/spanner-googles-globally-distri...

or Bigtable?

https://research.google/pubs/bigtable-a-distributed-storage-...

or GFS?

or MapReduce?

or Borg?

or...I think you get the idea.


I am not sure these publications were intended to generate sales of these technologies. My assumption is that they mostly help the company in terms of recruitment. This lets potential employees see cool stuff Google is doing, and see them as an industry leader.


Spanner is literally a Google cloud product you can buy ignoring that it underpins a good amount of Google tech internally. The same is true of other stuff. Dismissing it as a recruitment tool indicates you haven’t worked at Google or really know much about their product lines.


He didn't say that Spanner is only a recruitment tool but that the blog posts about Spanner (and other core technologies of Google) might be.


More people see the blog posts as it’s a more gentle introduction than the paper itself. Sure it might generate interest in Google but it also generates interest for people to further look into the research. They are not for sales of the tech but I’m not sure the impact is just a recruitment tool even if that’s how Google justified the work to itself.


Spanner research paper was in 2012. Bigtable was in 2006. GFS 2003. The last decade has been a 'lost decade' of google. Not much innovation to be honest.


Attention is all you need is 2017... https://arxiv.org/abs/1706.03762


They thought it was dead end, that is why they released it :P


> Floorplanning/placement/synthesis is a billion dollar industry

Maybe all together, but I don't think automatic placement algorithms are a billion dollar industry. There's so much more to it than that.


Yes in combination. Customers generally buy these tools as a package deal. If the placer/floorplanner blows everything else out of the water, then a CAD vendor can upsell a lot of related tools.


The original paper reports P&R metrics (WNS, TNS, area, power, wirelength, horizontal congestion, vertical congestion) - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03544-w

(no paywall): https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~ey204/teaching/ACS/R244_2021_2022/...


From what I saw in the rebuttal papers, the Google cost-function is wirelength based. You can still get good TNS from that if your timing is very simplistic -- or if you choose your benchmark carefully.


They optimize using a fast heuristic based on wirelength, congestion, and density, but they evaluate with full P&R. It is definitely interesting that they get good timing without explicitly including it in their reward function!


Interesting == Suspicious? I think this is a big red flag to those in the know.


Yeah; it means the heuristic they use is a good one


The odd thing is that they don't compute timing in RL, but claim that somehow TNS and WNS improved. Does anyone believe this? With five circuits and three wins, the results are a coin toss.


Or...just go through their customer list and revoke the registration of any vehicles that were modified. Customers can then pay for having vehicle inspected at the DMV.


Or maybe you let the kids have a little fun and don't worry about it.


Automakers spend anywhere from $20-$30 BILLION annually on advertising, largely on TV and internet. Good luck to Edinburgh trying to shut off that firehose.


Perfect is the enemy of good.


IANAA, but this says we don't have to rely on with the notion of dark matter at all.

The paper proposes a special type of singularity that apparently has all the properties of galactic rotation and bending light normally associated with dark matter.


In 1927, the first espresso machine was brought to America. The huge machine is still on display at the Caffe Reggio in NYC.


They wanted Kubrick to direct, so it could have been a serious effort (Kubrick declined).


I’m not 100% sure Tolkien is right for Kubrick. Maybe but I’d be concerned that he’d make it a little too ponderous and symbolic. He’d nail the spooky dark aura around the ring though. But with the Beatles? Nah no way.

Peter Jackson’s adaptation was so authentic it looked at places just like my mental imagery looked as I was reading the book. That’s a tough thing to pull off in and of itself.

Spielberg would have made it campy. Lynch would have made it surreal, might have been cool but like his Dune would be a weird cult film take. (I like Lynch’s Dune but it’s weird.)

For some reason I think Ridley Scott could have done it if he could have gotten his head out of sci fi.


One of Jackson’s smartest move was hiring all the various Tolkien illustrators to work on set design mockups. Really made everything feel right for many people.


Kubrick for sure could've worked in a collab env, like he did with Spartacus (yeah, he distanced himself from it though). If you're interested in how Ridley Scott version might've looked like, look no further than Legend.


Kubrick did Spartacus (I think you meant to say). Kingdom of Heaven might be a better example from Ridley Scott.


that's right, thanks!


Um, Ridley Scott directed Legend which came out in 1985. While it wasn't a critical or commercial success, I thought and still think it is an amazing film, and one of the best pieces of cinematic "high fantasy" out there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_(1985_film)


Didn't Ridley Scott do Gladiator?


knowing what i know about how the beatles behave and how kubrick directs... there would've been a monumental clash of personalities behind the scenes


That was 4 years ago, and the case has not gone to trial.



While these guys were taking a few grand for a kitchenette, Caltrain top management gave away $150 MILLION to some well-connected friends for the failed CBOSS signal system project. CBOSS was an complete sham, but of course nobody will go to jail for that.


Exactly, or the billion+ spent on “feasibility” studies for building a rail line between SF and LA.

What a joke.


In California, money from traffic fines does not get paid back to law enforcement agencies. In fact, local city government has to pay for traffic enforcement, but gets no revenue from the fines because it all goes to the state.


Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: