China is hungry in a way others aren't. It is driving them to push far harder and faster because of this. Don't know it will be sustainable long term but it looks good now.
The one thing I have heard form mechanics is that cars from BYD seem to has better than expected manufacturing and engineering. They haven't cut corners were you would expect for the price. Not sure how the electrics will hold a decade into the future but but they have good bones.
There was a lot of hype about the SU7. They killed it with pre-orders. But their target for the year at 550K isn't gonna happen as they're sold about a 180k so far this year.
Neither. The SU7 originally came out in 2024, but word got out that it would get a refresh this year. The updated version officially launched on March 19. Shortly after, Xiaomi unveiled its new YU7 SUV, prompting some potential buyers to reconsider.
China is nowhere near “free market”. Their EV sector received more government subsidies in the last 15 years than the entire U.S. automobile market since inception. The total subsidies make up half of the market cap of their entire EV industry.
250 billion in EV subsidies from China. 10 billion by the U.S.
> The total subsidies make up half of the market cap of their entire EV industry.
Didn't Tesla essentially stay afloat for years via government subsidies (e.g. government-mandated carbon credits)?
Didn't the US only recently end its direct subsidies for EV buyers?
Don't US taxpayers provide an enormous ongoing subsidy to ICE vehicles by underwriting the security of the oilfields in the Gulf?
Don't US taxpayers in effect subsidize US automakers by ensuring they do not have to compete in the market with the best available vehicles?
More to the point: American free-marketeerism was never about the other side, it was about the US living its own professed values at home. We didn't shackle our press in discussions about the USSR because the USSR chose to shackle its own press. Our lockout of Chinese EVs rankles in part because it's a deviation, at home, from our own professed values.
It's really not. No serious analysis reduces the complexity of markets to a single number in a single sector. In particular, it takes willful blindness to look at subsidies in the EV market and ignore other energy markets.
You're also ignoring the most important point, my last point about values. The comment is still up, feel free to re-read it.
That's the point I guess, it is not binary, but proponents of absolute free markets see it as binary when they are against regulations, and as non-binary, when it is about competition from abroad. They want to have it both ways.
Direct producer subsidies for PRC EV was <100B, less than US injected into US auto, not much more than Euro auto. The latter just poorly, i.e. pork barrel / jobs programs that does not raise baseline competitiveness.
Most of CSIS muh PRC 200b-400b includes rebates/taxes AND subsidies to upstream, i.e. battery industry which used more than cars. AKA they bundled energy sector to skew PRC numbers.
For comparable you'd have to include all historic US/EU auto subsidies, AND ASSOCIATED upstream subsidies like MOST OF fossil industry, related diesel/fuel discounts... etc etc in which case US/EU have been rebating to the tune of trillions.
Strict auto-auto sector equivalence = PRC subsidized less to commoditize their car industry in fraction of time, which is not remotely "overproduction", they still barely exports 20%... they'd have to export 50/75%+ to reach shares of EU/JP/SKR etc and even then those absurd export%s not treated as overproduction. PRC would need to be exporting ~20m more cars then they do now to even qualify.
Auto+energy sector equivalence (the 200-400b figure), PRC not even on the axis in equivalence scenario.
In any case, the point is that the US also subsidizes markets, including the auto markets. China is far from unique in this. As you say, free market capitalism isn't binary, and in this case all parties are subsidizing to some degree.
You seem to understand the meaning of "to some degree" differently than I. To me it implies that subsidies can happen at different amounts, not that they are all the same.
What is an equivalence here is, that the binary flag of "does subsidize" is true, and that equivalence holds.
That's an interesting point actually. Most places in China and even quite rural ones are livable and reachable via public transport including trains. Most of their big cities are very convenient to get around in just by walking and metro or sometimes taking a bus.
If China government kickstarted their EV sector (along many others) and enabled them to be competitive, strong and dominating.
That means the Chinese government is doing a really good job.
I really hate this argument where every government across the globe have to basically be a drag which sucks the life out of an economy and wastes extracted resources (taxes) on bullshit instead of putting them to good use.
This is what winning looks like fellas, and you're just losing. Get used to it as there's only going to be more of this.
Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse. Your comment would be fine without that bit
> Where the fuck are you getting these numbers from?
Hey, can you please not break the site guidelines like this, no matter how wrong someone is or you feel they are? It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.
That journalist may not want to buy American cars, but thanks to our enlightened government, they must buy American cars, since everything else is taxed significantly or banned altogether. Free market for all! /s
And? Please scroll the start of this thread. Robotics is a long way off, we need better models and more compute. I am not sure what you are arguing for.
In my experience who live and work with smart people, and make smart decisions about their personal lives and families are pretty happy .
You can have a high IQ and make really stupid personal decisions.
Albert Einstein was notorious for this . He made catastrophic personal decisions that destroyed his families. His various wives and numerous mistresses ended up despising him and his son ended up in an asylum .
Well, as a user of LLMs I also find it annoying, the agents gather information on my behalf, they save me time and money. Are we splitting humanity? Those with info accessible to agents and those who only use their human sense directly?
This whole distinction is futile imho. And no, I'm not Sam Altman.
I mean training is one thing, you should honor people's licenses, but browsing and gathering information? Why force me to do it with my biological neural net?
My biggest fear with AI is that it basically devalues the production of knowledge. They’re a continued march away from actually showing people the original information, and the people doing that writing get less and less credit.
The companies themselves know they depend on this knowledge but have no plan to fund or replace the work done on sites like Wikipedia, stack overflow, or blogs like acoup.blog
Honestly, I'll take it a step further: what's wrong with training?
Having principles means applying them uniformly -- even to large entities or those you hate (it's fine if the principles themselves have size bounds in them, though -- versus them being implicitly glued on -- but then you need a universal justification for why that size. Which is possible and valid.)
I think that one should use the best algorithms, the best information, the best knowledge they have access to -- period. I don't like using gimped machines, I don't like making gimped machines, and I certainly don't like being sold them.
So I'm not going to turn around and say LLMs need to be gimped via arbitrary restrictions on their training data.
I agree. As soon as I understood the gist of how modern models do what they do, I found it unreasonable to apply any stricter standards to their "learning" than we do to humans. Humans learn by reading ideas and looking at images, then go on to have ideas and draw images based on that training.
We have definitions of plagiarism and copyright infringement that apply to people based on what they put out into the world, not how they trained themselves to get there[0]. Artists literally trace art and study specific examples in detail to learn, and that's not a bad thing. Humans can also accidentally plagiarize or make things identical to past works - it's easy to think a great guitar riff just came to you when it was really based on a song you heard years ago that stuck in a part of your mind but you don't even consciously remember the influence, for example.
It would certainly be nice for AI output to provide citations if it realizes it's using a significant chunk of an idea from its training that has a clear source (or many), though this is difficult in the same way it would be difficult for me to cite where I learned about the Towers of Hanoi. The AI frequently does web searches for specific resources to get ideas from these days, which are easy for it to cite.
However, it would have a chilling effect on progress as a whole if we all started jealously guarding our ideas so close to our chest that machines couldn't read them and only a select few humans who passed some kind of gate (or even paid us) were allowed to see them. We would be nowhere close to where we are if we had always had such a mindset.
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[0] We use proven absence of viewing certain material as a legal shield against copyright infringement e.g. clean room engineering, but this isn't strictly necessary, and possibly even discouraged with modern precedent: https://reactos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21740
Litigation and legislation against Big AI may be the only things that work .
We will probably have to wait Europe and China to do this since the US executive , legislative and legal systems have all been bought by Ames oligarchs .
Linux is so very predictably stable from a desktop user perspective . It is an absolute pleasure to use , particularly when combined with TUI applications like yazi, lsd, fzf , neovim etc
Been using it since the early nineties .
At work I use Windows Server 2025 as my desktop ( the alternative would be the dreadful AI infested Windows 11).
While Windows Server 2025 is not dreadful , the Linux experience is so much nicer .
"WSJ
I Test Drove a Chinese EV. Now I Don't Want to Buy American Cars Anymore.
https://www.wsj.com/tech/personal-tech/chinese-ev-test-drive...
"