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Many reason were articulated, including the threat on an immediate attack on the US. That reason ran counter to defense assessments. Also, the reasons and goals stated by Trump (“President of Peace” and inaugural awardee of the FIFA peace prize), Rubio, and Hegseth have not been consistent.

Was the reason to open the Strait that was already open, prevent an attack, to prevent Iran from making a nuclear weapon, or to change a regime?


They had like $16B in revenue last year, half from Starlink.

That’s just money in the door and the underwriters seem to think the business is worth $1.75T.


If underwriters think it’s worth $1.7T with a $16B revenue (not profit), they’re doing the same thing as the credit agencies did in 2008 by giving underwater mortgage backed securities a AAA rating.


Do you have any evidence or analysis to back that up? How are those similar?


It's not the same at all. Do you know how an IPO roadshow works at all or are you just spouting bullshit?


If roadshows guaranteed accurate valuations, pets.com wouldn’t liquidate within a year of IPO.

Again, not debating that SpaceX isn’t a legit company or that it’s profitable. But underwriters agreeing with high valuations to stocks that collapse once they go public isn’t unheard of.

Edit: and I will concede that I should’ve phrased my initial thoughts better. Credit rating agencies and underwriters do very separate things, just like IPOs and MBS are two very separate things.


You said: "underwriters ... doing the same thing as the credit agencies did in 2008 by giving underwater mortgage backed securities a AAA rating"

That isn't what is happening at all.

In an IPO the underwriters and the company collaborate to set the price based on approximate demand and what they want the quality of the holders to look like.

In the roadshow, the company is very constrained as to what they can say or disclose outside of the scope of the S-1. They can't include MNPI, forward looking financial projections, etc. Underwriters are also prohibited from sharing MNPI, or publishing marketing disguised as research.

So I guess if you're saying the SpaceX S-1 is completely full of shit and there's hidden risk in it, than it could be similar to 2008, but in this case nobody is manufacturing a rating, and those material misrepresentations would constitute securities fraud. Investment banks and ratings agencies aren't the same thing at all, and the buyers of marginally profitable IPO stocks are (hopefully) different than those of AAA MBS.


Yes. I updated my earlier comment and I concede I should’ve worded my earlier comment better.

I agree underwriters and credit agencies are very different just like IPOs and MBS are very different. I don’t think SpaceX is committing fraud.

> That’s just money in the door and the underwriters that seem to think the business is worth $1.75T.

I was responding to this particular comment.

In 2008, the credit rating agencies weren’t necessarily found to be guilty of wrongdoing, but a variety of reasons let them roll with AAA ratings on junk MBS anyway. Similarly the underwriters are not going to be committing crimes to facilitate IPOs. They are after all taking the risk of guaranteeing the sale for the company. However, if a company wants to roll with a high valuation, even if the fundamentals aren’t matching the valuation, if there are buyers, the underwriters will set the price supporting that high valuation. They are not incentivized to accurately measure a company’s worth like the comment I was responding to suggests.


They are decades ahead of their nearest competition, in multiple verticals, and their barrier to entry is a literal gravity well.


All the money they are burning is for grok. And it is not decades ahead.


BO has entered the chat New Glenn and are arguably equal to Super Heavy given they've also recovered and reused their heavy booster.

I think you're going to be surprised at the level of competition BO provides SpaceX in the Artemis program.


About those underwriters - to quote the venerable Charlie Munger "they will sell 'shit' as long as 'shit' can be sold".


the ability to mine the moon or asteroid belt seems extremely lucrative, the logistics of transporting materials to earth costs less than shipping them across the ocean, an astounding level of value creation.


This can’t a serious comment.

Did you notice the size of the Artemis rocket and the size of the payload it sends to the moon and back?

Do you expect there to be diamonds just laying these on the moon surface, no mining required.


you don't have to ship things the moon, you just build a mass driver on the moon that sends things to earth. it doesn't need to yield diamonds, this would be lucrative with just fresh water


You actually believe that transporting _water_ from the moon to earth could ever be profitable, no, lucrative? Can you lay out the economics? Just so I understand.


“Just” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.


There is no other mode of transportation cheaper than shipping across the ocean.


launching things via a mass driver from the moon to the earth requires a lot less fuel, is faster, and cheaper than shipping across the ocean


That one is subsidized by externalizing costs to our lungs.


Shipping on water has been, by far, the cheapest mode of long-distance shipping since the moment boats were invented. That is to say, since thousands of years before boats were ever powered by the shit that destroys our lungs.


So is pace travel. Then rockets are not green!


It is valuable if they can find the right rocks and bring them back. A platinum group metal asteroid would be of immense value, at least the first one anyways. After that who knows, they might super saturate the global market for decades.


our use of platinum has been limited by its scarcity, having tons of it would completely change the things we could build. saturation isn't a real downstream effect of economics, it would instead be transformative


Could you please clarify your statement?


>> Attacks on free speech - like social media censorship or bans - makes democracy not possible.

GP stated this.

Parent replied with a list of scenarios where violence created progress, albeit none of which featured universal democracy before the violence.

IOW, they are loudly agreeing with each other.


At least in the case of the USA, then, there's still no universal democracy. Corporations have far more powerful and influence, in basically every election you can only vote for a neoliberal, and plenty of people get disenfranchised.


It seems like bike-shedding to equate complete lack of franchise with vote dilution.

They are very different levels of democratic access.


Could you provide some sources?



Any reference that you can point to on the housing shortage being due to preference?

It seems like job location, compensation, average cost of living, and commute would play a fairly large role.


Exactly. Those are preferences.

You can get a decent, 3 bed, 2 bath house for 100k. Just move to some place like Tucumcari, NM. Why not? Oh...right...the same reasons no one else moves to places like that...


Preferences don’t explain why we aren’t building housing where people want to live. Mid rise buildings don’t need to be particularly expensive per square foot. ~11 million for a 50 unit building is 220k / apartment not 100k cheap but way better than what you see near most cites people want to live in. 2 to 3x housing density requires extra transportation infrastructure but it also means being able to support such infrastructure.

Instead walk around most expensive city’s and you see single family dwellings /row houses in sight of high rises / skyscrapers. That’s not economic efficiency that’s people who can afford high housing prices likening the system the way it is.


You need to find a way to convince the owners of that inefficient housing to sell it to a developer so that they can demolish it to build the efficient housing. That will add significantly to the unit economics of the efficient housing.


Legal issues are more of a hindrance.

At the start you might be adding a few million in land costs and building taller, but that quickly deflates the housing market. Pushing people to sell before their homes become ever less valuable. Further cities outlive people, reluctant homeowners eventually die.

City infrastructure similarly has real costs, but an infrastructure tax on every net new unit isn’t going to see anywhere close to current prices.


In most cases it's illegal to build that efficient housing.


Because there aren’t jobs there?


"It seems like job location, compensation, average cost of living, and commute would play a fairly large role."

Are you saying these don't involve preferences?

And a web search will bring up tons of housing preference sources coming various aspects.

https://learn.upright.us/real-estate-investing-blog/a-housin...


Sure, you could argue that some people prefer to not live a destitute life, and that influences the high price of housing. But that is reductive, ignoring a host of other factors, which again, you might be able to boil down to preference (wealthy capitalists prefer to make more money) but again, it's reductive and offers a somewhat shallow perspective and not much to act on.


You would at least be able to act on the true cause rather than chase short term changes that may not even work or won't scale. If it's indicative of a distribution problem, then we should be investigating distribution solutions. If you can't see this connection, then I posit that you might have the shallow perspective.


Enlighten me.


Finviz


Saw bits of that interview.

Lonsdale comes off as a ‘yes’ man for the wagon he’s hitched his fortunes to.

When in doubt, he’ll suggest tons of fraud, but offer no substance, and Sorkin just lets his guests speak.


May I suggest a fifth possibility: your core assumption is flawed and your professor hasn’t been paying attention.

Unless your college is failing, it is hard to believe that the student population hasn’t changed significantly over the last 30 years, when the US population has almost grown by 30%.

I attended UCI over 25 years ago. The student population has since more than doubled. Tuition rates, interestingly have also almost doubled.


This was at a college where indeed the student population did not change in size. The same goes for the professors, whose population grew about 5% over that time.


Not every school wants to grow the size of their student body. And there shouldn't be any reason why they would be forced to.


That's a weird thing to say since many small and rather well regarded private schools stay small on purpose.

For example, do you really think Dartmouth is failing?


Yeah, the parent comment here should have been thinking Dartmouth rather than about one of the UCs for their model school. This was Caltech.


Well, as a fellow alum, I can tell you they definitely screwed up the last two points (esp ITAR) within living memory.


Yeah, the list I provided there were areas where Caltech grew significantly. I wasn't sure if other schools were the same.


Many elite colleges have opted to keep class sizes small, and make themselves more selective instead. It is pretty despicable. It sounds like UCI is doing the right thing, although I've heard it's still hard to get into many of the UC schools because there are so many applicants.

In fairness, a dollar in 2000 is worth $1.83 today, so that would (almost) account for the tuition increase.


Because SAT scores, alone, tell you nothing about a candidate outside of their ability to completely that test.


It is different. Cost plus allows the contractors to charge for development and add a profit margin.

The corporate equivalent would be a fixed price contract, which has overhead built in and far exceeds university rates.


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