Don't pretend what the US does amounts to genuine care.
The philosophy behind a business caring for employees and implementations of slavery are two fundamentally different topics, only confused when buying into US propaganda.
Not crazy. Caring about the business without caring about the people who literally are and empower the business is simply dehumanization.
It's been done to death. Literally.
Edit: People seem to think I'm proposing businesses keep operating how they are. I'm suggesting businesses that truly care need people running them who know how to care, not the normalized psychopathy that's become corporate culture. I'm not suggesting current or past harmful relationships with businesses continue or that even those businesses should continue.
Crazy. The whole notion of employer sponsored health insurance is a historical accident and never made any logical sense. I don't want my employer to care about me at that level and prefer a straightforward transactional relationship.
Should business also care about their employee's diets and fitness regimes? There are things that are outside of the purview of a business and the healthcare of their employees, outside of the direct impact of the business's work environment on the employee's health, should not be part of it.
Another way to say it, there is more to health than how an employer affects a person's life, and those things are none of the business' business.
Yes, businesses would be better off if they cared about wellbeing to such a degree. That doesn't mean control employees, though.
It means to actually care about the quality of food the employees have access to and the quality of culture surrounding them. It means caring about the environments people live in. It means recognizing people LEARN to make harming choices through harm (individual, familial, social, collective, cultural, systemic...etc) so recognizing repair is needed & pursuing that. This is what lobbying would be about without dehumanization.
Don't get lost in the fascist fantasies of what it means to care.
I don't want my employer to be involved in any of that though. Otherwise we'll be having a lot more conversations with people who are completely unqualified to make any determinations about things like my mental health.
One issue is your automated dehumanization of someone who doesn't match cultural norms as not being "basic human".
You continuing with culture that fundamentally dismisses/devalues humans is the main issue here. Culture change starts from within. He works as a spokesperson for me becahse I'm much more inclined to someone showing basic humanity, like eating off a foot, than someone showing basic inhumanity, like catering to preferences born inside a country (like the US) that was founded on genocide & enslavement.
The few problems humanity has that need to be solved:
1. How to identify humanity's needs on all levels, including cosmic ones...(we're in the Space Age so we need to prepare ourselves for meeting beings from other places)
2. How to meet all of humanity's needs
Pointing this out regularly is probably necessary because the issue isn't why people are choosing what they're doing...it's that our systems actively disincentivize collectibely addressing these two problems in a way that doesn't sacrifice people's wellbeing/lives... and most people don't even think about it like this.
For sure! The main thing keeping us from teaching advanced things to younger folks is the seeming addiction to teaching poorly/ineffectively. I'm here to find the physical play-with-your-hands demonstrations needed for teaching kids as young as 5 the intuitions/concepts behind higher-order category theory without all the jargon.
The nuance of all you wrote is missing the context in which it is written:
Israel is a settler-colonial white supremacist occupation and reporting on the "nuance" of how that situation has evolved over 76+ years without acknowledging Israel has no right to exist only serves the genocidal occupation of Palestine. We need to abolish all white supremacy projects, including those from Zionist entities.
When you use a phrase like "genocidal rhetoric", I assume that you consider certain comments to be wrong and bad. From that perspective your question could be generalized to "what's the best way to respond to wrong and bad comments on this site?" Keeping in mind that "bad" here doesn't just mean the comment is badly written—in internet jargon, it means the commenter is bad.
Curiosity doesn't exclude wrongness or badness—it's interested in it. How did this comment (or person) get so wrong and bad? Could that change? Is there a response that could pull them out of wrongness and badness into rightness and goodness? Why do most of my (<-- I mean any of us, of course) attempts to do this fail so badly? Is there a more effective way to respond? Might there be something interesting here beyond wrongness and badness?
That's the spirit we're trying for on this site, so that's the answer to your question.
If I ask myself what other approaches are possible, there's one obvious option, and that is to crush/destroy/defeat the wrong and bad argument (and person) utterly. This is the desire to kill the other person (if only metaphorically (and maybe not always so metaphorically)), and thus establish rightness and goodness over wrongness and badness.
So the "accepted way" here is to listen to the other and dance with them, rather than killing them (or their position). Dance rather than war, if you like.
Is there a third option? I'm not sure. When I look inside myself, I can find the listen/dance option (or one could say give-and-take), and I can find the kill option. But I'm not sure I can find a third.
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Edit: reading this the next day, I think the word 'dance' could have trivializing associations (e.g. let's just dance rather than deal with violence and tragedy). I don't mean it that way. I mean something like moving and changing in response to each other. If anyone can do that in response to the other, even just a little, then one's self becomes a place for at least a modicum of change.
As someone who abandoned rightness/wrongness 9+ years ago (except in the idea of alignment with the cosmos), I can say that "genocidal rhetoric" doesn't necessarily imply rightness or wrongness. There exist language patterns that indicate a perspective that, when culturally carried and compounded for years, has the effect of cultivating behaviors that lead to extinguishing a people, whether intentional or not. This is genocidal rhetoric.
As for options as to what to do with it, I find this useful for finding more.
> "genocidal rhetoric" doesn't necessarily imply rightness or wrongness
I believe you when you describe your perspective this way, but it's so far beyond conventional usage that it may be misleading to express it in this way. Certainly I didn't understand your GP comment as being anywhere near what you're saying here, and I doubt others would.
It's true...conventional usage is rooted in addiction to violence, which includes dualistic myths of right/wrong, life/death, like/dislike, belief/disbelief.
Perhaps a site-wide call for curiosity when encountering such myths could help spur people to pull themselves out of such ways of "killing" nondual animist views of experience.
I appreciate you dang and the culture you are trying to cultivate, but I think in a genocide civility politics are inappropriate. I'm jewish, and I am certain that "raising questions" about whether jews should live or die or are intrinsically evil terrorists would not be allowed on this site. For balance, this should be accorded equally to palestinians, who are in fact being killed mercilessly in line for food by Israeli forces and US mercenaries. pg in fact has been loudly talking about the genocide, which I appreciate.
I will try to be less flippant in my comments. Nonetheless, it is a lot of work to cut through genocidal lies that are often supported (at least in editorials if not in actual reporting) by the mainstream media. The north of Gaza has been nearly obliterated and still these guys get to cast aspersions justifying the annihilation of a people.
> "raising questions" about whether jews should live or die or are intrinsically evil terrorists would not be allowed on this site. For balance, this should be accorded equally to palestinians
What are examples of such comments not being flagged and/or moderated? I'd appreciate links. Such comments are unacceptable by any interpretation of HN's guidelines, and the only reason we wouldn't crack down on them (same as with antisemitic comments of course) is if we didn't see them.
> I think in a genocide civility politics are inappropriate
I'm not talking about civility and stopped using that word years ago. Shallow words like civility or politeness don't reflect how we think about moderation. (I listed a few past explanations about that below*, if anyone wants them.)
What are we looking for? Not sure I can answer that better than I did in the GP comment. We want people to listen to each other, because of the two available options—listening and killing—only listening is compatible with the core value of the site.
I know it's a provocation to use the word "killing" in this context, and obviously I mean it metaphorically, but I think it's accurate. When people stop listening and seek to destroy the other's argument/position/view, killing energy is the quality that shows up. I don't think it takes too much emotional self-awareness to feel this, nor too much self-honesty to admit it.
That is the dynamic behind weaponized internet comments. It's easy to deny, because the genre itself is so trivial, and so are the weapons (snark, tropes, etc.). But one need only sense into the feeling level and it's no longer so trivial—in fact, it's all there.
This explains the distinctive mix of rage and pain that flares up when one reads a comment fired against one's position, and also the distinctive mix of...let's call it righteousness and triumph that flares up when a comment is fired in favor of one's position.
Perhaps it would be less provocative to use the word "war" rather than "killing" for the non-listening option, but I'm not sure that abstraction is beneficial in describing this. It creates distance from the reality inside ourselves, and room for denial and evasion.
Regardless of what the best names are, we want the listening option, because the alternative is just more destruction.
(Needless to say, I'm not talking about you here, I'm talking about all of us.)
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* Here are a few posts touching on how we stopped thinking in terms of 'civility'...lots more can be found in HN Search if anyone cares...
This doesn't take into account resources in the ground, otherwise it would need to show how rich the so-called "poor" countries locked into debt slavery and colonized infrastructure/governance the "rich" countries continue to impose on them.
If the measures ignore the sources of wealth discovered and not yet extracted, it doesn't accurately indicate what's happening. The whole story is left untold. Not reporting worth basing economic decisions on, except to hire better economists.
The article is entirely about income and not at all about wealth. Content was a little surprising given the title, but I wouldn't see the point of a comprehensive wealth analysis given the resource curse you allude to.
Cracks show up when viewed from a lens of "wait...was that domination-oriented, dualistic, whitewashed, imperialistic, nationalistic, colonial indoctrination in the form of education?".
I don't disagree with the notion of jingoism in public education. I disagree that it has anything to do with the myriad behavioral and performance issues in public schooling.
When you have an entire system dependent on compliance, you have a system of oppression. Behaviorism is already debunked as a way to evaluate how people respond to such situations because it completely ignores the internal state of people. Any system doing that is already a dehumanized system.
The performance and behavior issues will continue until the spiritual beatings cease. You cannot keep imposing systems of oppression onto people and medicate away their natural responses to it. Let the riot be the rhyme of the unheard and may these kids flip over all the desks of the adults not walking out of their jobs in response to fascism.
The philosophy behind a business caring for employees and implementations of slavery are two fundamentally different topics, only confused when buying into US propaganda.