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That is quite literally what this lawsuit is trying to establish as illegal (it was a grey area before).

Many people misunderstand and think it is just about the temporary unlimited lending. It was motivated by that, but went further.



I don't think so? I was saying that the library buys a paper book, scans it, and destroys the original, leaving them with a digital copy. I think (seriously, IANAL) that conversion process is legal because you start with 1 copy and end with 1 copy. The thing the Internet Archive is in trouble for is taking 1 copy and giving it to multiple people at once (effectively, start with 1 copy, end with >1 copy) which is probably a legal problem.


It's hard to make headway in copyright law trying to reason like a regular human being.

Copyright is an artificial constraint on something that is otherwise constrained only by cost of raw inputs and machine labor (even back in the days of setting the lead by hand)... And in that sense, not very constrained at all. The whole thing is an artifice that tries to encourage creation of novel work by couching monopoly on ideas in property law.

This leaves you with a quantum beast that mostly runs on "vibes." To your example: no, illegal, because you made a copy, right there, when you format-shifted. Or yes, because you preserved the total number of instances. Or no, because you moved a tangible format that is easy to preserve singularity on to a hard-to-audit, easy-to-copy format, thus greatly increasing the risk of copyright fiolation. Or yes, because you actually recorded the fact of the position of the ink on the paper in your original copy, and you can't copyright facts ("this is a historical record of what my book looked like"). Or...

Copyright is a ball of string and chewing gum held together by a few explicit laws and many, many centuries of precedent. It's very hard to predict what the end result of a lawsuit in novel territory will be, because it really does come down to "Which faction do the judges think should have more power today?"


I hope a greater and greater percentage of the population comes to understand this.

Currently the people putting in the bigger volume of “work” are the “we want the money” faction. Those who claim they own every concept that they touch. Because they will get more money if they win they treat it as both a war and a job.

Some legal-decision makers put in a smaller but more personally costly amount of work to fight against them in that war.

And a few in the general public put in work to try to change public opinion so that either the war can end peacefully (the “we own everything we touch” faction dwindles and get phased out) or we can get enough people to join the legal fights so that we can win the war.

Every time we become complacent they gain ground. Every time we make a stand they try to erode it from all sides. It is the active and vigilant effort despite them that makes forward progress possible.


I have lent books from IA, they only loan out to one person at a time. You have to renew your lending every ninety minutes or so.


This was about the "National Emergency Library" which ran for a while in 2020. After the publishers came after them, they returned to only having 1:1 lending.


Thank you. I admit I was reading this thread a bit nonplussed.


It’s actually about both. The unlimited lending provoked the lawsuit, but the lawsuit seeks to establish a precedent against 1-to-1 lending too.


From other comments here noting that digital copies are often both more expensive and allow only for a limited number of total lends to happen before invalid (4-6 being noted), it sounds like even getting a physical copy, converting to digital and securing or destroying the physical copy to allow a single digital copy to be checked out at a time would be useful for libraries. Just having a digital copy with the same lending characteristics as a physical one sounds like a win over that.


That is exactly what the lawsuit against the IA seeks to establish as illegal.

Almost everybody this thread mistakenly believes that the lawsuit is strictly about the unlimited lending that has long since been suspended - it is not.

The lawsuit was provoked by the unlimited lending, but takes a two-pronged approach - it attacks both unlimited and 1-to-1 lending.


As far as I can tell, the book publishers are merely seeking to have 17 U.S. Code § 108, subsection (g) enforced.

The law[1] makes it clear public libraries are permitted to make one digital copy and distribute it (lend it) once at a time on separate occasions. Subsection (g) outlines that distributing that one copy multiple times simultaneously forfeits the protections granted by this law.

[1]: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/108


§ 108 doesn't apply here, in either direction. See footnote 6 of the lower court decision, where the court notes that the Internet Archive doesn't rely on § 108, but instead on § 107 covering fair use, and also notes that § 108 doesn't restrict fair use by libraries: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.53...

The reason IA doesn't rely on § 108 is "When a user requests a copy of an entire work or a substantial part thereof, the library or archives must first make a reasonable effort to determine whether a copy can be obtained at a fair price. If it can, then no copy is allowed to be made." https://www.copyright.gov/policy/section108/discussion-docum...

What you're describing, "public libraries are permitted to make one digital copy and distribute it (lend it) once at a time on separate occasions," is what controlled digital lending refers to, and it would be cool if it was overtly authorized by statute, but it isn't -- the original CDL whitepaper ( https://controlleddigitallending.org/whitepaper/ ) relied on fair use instead. The trial court found that it fails that test, so unless IA wins on appeal, it doesn't exist.


this law is out of date and silly. one of the primary purposes of making digital copies is to have infinite copies, and everyone knows that. [Request to delete that law submitted]




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